Birding China (1 Viewer)

[johnjemi]

China requires a visa for most foreign visitors. Sometimes the visa applicant has to submit a detailed itinerary, with evidence of hotel bookings. This is just inconvenient for independent travellers.

The authorities can keep the most popular sites - like Jiuzhaigou in Sichuan - filled with domestic tourists, so I don’t think there is any movement towards encouraging more foreigners to visit.

Once in mainland China, the trend is that train and long-distance buses must be paid with AliPay or WeChat Pay, not with cash. And your identity document number is printed on the ticket.


But on a more positive note: -

Language can be a problem, but technology can come to the rescue with widespread use of translation Mobile Phone Apps.

For local information, “the last few miles” - visit local bookstores. Paper maps, or map books with local tourist attractions (in Chinese) are usually available. Obviously, you can use these to indicate to taxi drivers where you want to go.

Field Guides - I believe an update to the 20 year-old OUP MacKinnon and Phillipps book is out. In Yunnan near the Burmese border, I have preferred Craig Robson’s “Birds of SouthEast Asia”.

It’s a huge country, and there is much to experience, not just birds.

 

[lgonz1008]

Field Guides - I believe an update to the 20 year-old OUP MacKinnon and Phillipps book is out. In Yunnan near the Burmese border, I have preferred Craig Robson’s “Birds of SouthEast Asia”.

I did a little research and it seems like there's going to be an updated version of MacKinnon and Phillips later this year called Guide to the Birds of China, so it looks like the country will finally get an update field guide that's in English for the first time in 20 years.

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Other useful field guides for China include Arlott's 'Birds of Southeast Asia' for southern China and Brazil's 'Birds of East Asia' for the eastern provinces.

 

[Jim M.]

Why are so few Western Birders travelling to China? There are of course a number of excellent tour operators. But in addition to the high cost, they tend to focus on small regions which provide great birding and build large lists but inevitably this means many great birds are not on their itinerary. China offers some of the most exciting birds amongst some of the most stunningly beautiful countryside. Its so simple to navigate the high speed train system or book the cheap internal flights. Food and accommodation is so cheap and the country so safe? I could enthuse more but I am simply asking a question of those who are missing out on the amazing variety of birds ,why??
Is it because you don't speak Chinese? I have travelled throughout China from the mountains of Qinghai to find Sillem's Mountain finch then, to the Northern forests where I found Swinhoe's Rail. And yet I am still trying to learn how to say hello in Chinese.
I travel to Thailand and meet independent birders, I find I get cheated and its so much more difficult to reach, and expensive. Can anyone explain why China is ignored? In 10 years I have only met one pair of independent birders ,apart from at the very accessible and easy migration watch point on the Hebei coast around Beidaihe. ???????
Any one know the reason why?

China isn't ignored. Most big companies offered trips there before the pandemic. But I tend to place authoritarian countries that imprison, torture, and massacre pro-democracy activists and that are currently engaging in genocide low on my list of birding destinations. I'm reluctant to support the economies of such countries with my tourist dollars. To say nothing of the fact that if you get involved in legal problems there, you may have trouble getting out.

 

[jurek]

Good point that Chinese government itself does not encourage foreign tourists. I was lucky to come in a brief window of time when seeing Giant Pandas in the wild was possible. Two years later, the government simply shut the place.

Another problem with China is that it is extremely transformed and urbanized. Anywhere with resemblance to wilderness is few and far between. In Western countries you can often bird quite productively in a random park or a suburban forest. In a park in China, you see maybe 5% of number of birds, and there is usually no forest in sight. My first visit to China actually made me realize that conservation in Europe or USA really was worth something. China is progressing, on my second and third visit birds were visibly more than on first, but there are simply tens of better places to visit on all continents.

 

[McMadd]

China isn't ignored. Most big companies offered trips there before the pandemic. But I tend to place authoritarian countries that imprison, torture, and massacre pro-democracy activists and that are currently engaging in genocide low on my list of birding destinations. I'm reluctant to support the economies of such countries with my tourist dollars. To say nothing of the fact that if you get involved in legal problems there, you may have trouble getting out.

This is a tangent we'd best stop after this...I won't be going anywhere near the US for same reasons...

 

[Barbets48]

As someone who has lived in China for a number of years, there are definitely some challenges to getting to out-of-the-way birdy places. I live in a small city away from the main tourist cities and travel routes that foreigners visit. It was necessary for me to learn Mandarin to live here, but for someone who speaks little or no Mandarin Chinese (and even for those who do), it is indeed challenging to get around independently for birding. As others have noted, it is certainly possible, but it takes a fair bit of persistence, sense of adventure, and patience to rely on help from others and online translators, etc. Even as someone who speaks a fair bit of Mandarin, it has been challenging for me to find local guides or connect with local birders in advance in an area I am visiting. Certainly there are the major tour operators going to the "best" birding locations, but those are quite expensive.

As an example of finding birding spots, in my city area (located in Guangxi province in the south of the country), I've managed to find about four locations that have public access and decent birding. Discovering them was a mixture of using satellite maps, and just driving out to places. A couple are public parks, which can at times be overrun by people. A couple others are just small roads or trails that are public access, but would not show up in any kind of official park list, and hence are the types of places that would only be found if you were living in a place or knew people nearby. It can be a little strange going to those places, because at least at first the people living there may wonder why you're there and what you're doing, since among the public there is often not a general familiarity or awareness of birding as a hobby/interest. For a foreigner coming to my city who only speaks English (and without private transportation or local connections), the only realistic places to bird would be the few public parks/gardens.

For those of us living in the country, I would encourage us to post our birding records to English friendly sites like eBird and create trip reports when going to other locations, as both of these really add to information available in English for independent travelers. As an example, this summer I went to Dali in Yunnan, and I found eBird to be an extremely helpful resource. There were a good number of eBird records in Dali that allowed me to get a basic idea of the birds I could find at some of the publicly accessible sites (for those interested, here is the link to my Dali trip report). The same could not be said for many more out-of-the-way places.

One of the additional language-related obstacles for people coming to China to bird is that while there are some birders in China who use sites like eBird, many more Chinese birders are submitting sightings to the Chinese-language-only China Bird Report (中国观鸟记录中心). There is a wealth of information and records there, but without Chinese language , it is difficult to wade through.

I personally feel like there the country's bird life is increasing in many ways as is the appreciation of nature and conservation. China has amazing natural resources and a growing community of nature lovers. I've found that the number of wildlife and bird photographers outnumbers those who are strictly birding (by that I mean using only binoculars in the field).

One more note: the recently released CNG Field Guide to the Birds of China (中国鸟类观察手册) is really an excellent field guide! My Chinese level isn't good enough to wholly benefit from the text in-depth (it's all in Chinese except for the English and scientific species names), but the plates of the birds and the range maps are overall really great, such that it has replaced the Mackinnon/Phillips guide as my go-to field guide. It also has the up-to-date taxonomy and covers every bird in the country. It's available in-country for about 80 yuan.

Mike

 

[Jim M.]

This is a tangent we'd best stop after this...I won't be going anywhere near the US for same reasons

That's alright; we don't want you here for the same reasons.

 

[McMadd]

That's alright; we don't want you here for the same reasons.

Civil as ever...

 

[Jeff Hopkins]

Civil as ever...

That's OK, McMadd. You'd be welcome in my part of the US.

 

[kabayanmark]

I agree with Woodrip - the rewards are there for those who put in the effort and get themselves organised.

There are plenty of birds to see in places that are relatively easily accessible with good transport food and accommodation. More and more people speak English, and the hardcopy and online travel guides have enabled masses of non Chinese speakers to travel widely. True, the furthest corners and the toughest birds are not necessarily reachable, but with a little imagination you can avoid the crowds and get into habitat for great birds. There are also plenty of trip reports available.

Cheers
Mike

Well there is a simple alternative that I guess you will not like !! - I bought an electric mountain bike or just use my old mountain bike and slog out on the hills. So even with transport fixed many paths and roads have illegal gates across them so you cannot proceed or military posts or more often when you get to a descent spot there is just nothing but trees, nothing flying unless you include mosquitoes.
Local knowledge would be great, but often there is none. Guangzhou and Shenzhen birders dont share !!, Hangzhou is excellent and actually a little park to the north west of Xihu and the wetlands is good and accessible. Sanya - struggling to find anything, Harbin, is OK in Sun Island but not much variety, and Changchun I will attack tomorrow. In general it is tough compared to Europe and the US

 

[LarryA]

Why are so few Western Birders travelling to China? There are of course a number of excellent tour operators. But in addition to the high cost, they tend to focus on small regions which provide great birding and build large lists but inevitably this means many great birds are not on their itinerary. China offers some of the most exciting birds amongst some of the most stunningly beautiful countryside. Its so simple to navigate the high speed train system or book the cheap internal flights. Food and accommodation is so cheap and the country so safe? I could enthuse more but I am simply asking a question of those who are missing out on the amazing variety of birds ,why??
Is it because you don't speak Chinese? I have travelled throughout China from the mountains of Qinghai to find Sillem's Mountain finch then, to the Northern forests where I found Swinhoe's Rail. And yet I am still trying to learn how to say hello in Chinese.
I travel to Thailand and meet independent birders, I find I get cheated and its so much more difficult to reach, and expensive. Can anyone explain why China is ignored? In 10 years I have only met one pair of independent birders ,apart from at the very accessible and easy migration watch point on the Hebei coast around Beidaihe. ???????
Any one know the reason why?

Hi I'm working in Shanghai currently and would love to travel more and get better picture taking opportunities, however since I started taking bird pictures travel has not really been an option. Since Covid arrived my employer (school) does not want teachers to leave the city. Technically I could leave but there could be negative consequences if I was to get sick and I would have to get the schools approval first. That being said over summer break I did get to do some traveling and even managed to get pictures of a Golden Eagle. Currently I would say Covid has restricted a lot of birding all over the world.

 

[woodrip]

So how do you actually get to sites? And I don't mean cross country travel, but the last miles

 

[woodrip]

So how do you actually get to sites? And I don't mean cross country travel, but the last miles

 

[woodrip]

Regards actually getting to specific sites. Not been a problem so long as you prepare well. Travelling with the late Dave Pitman we randomly found an English speaker in Golmud who fixed us up with a driver and in his landrover we were able not just to travel up the yenigou valley but he was happy to drive beyond the Yenigou valley to the start of a small valley for Sillems mountain finch. Equally there is a well know guide based in Wuerqihanzhen in Northern china to help with Swinhoes rail otherwise a 6km walk. The bird photographed a short walk from road. Another example, a bus, takes you to within a half km of Dongzhai. Next the cost is just 60RMB for a taxi from Zhenlai to a Jankowski bunting site. Zhenlai is served by an overnight sleeper from Beijing and taxis wait for the train. No english needed you just need to know the site and point the direction.( Sleepers can be booked before arrival eg Ctrip) Don't have to pay for taxis all the time, getting off the bus on the main highway north from Chengdu I was heading for wolong so started hitch hiking when a policeman stopped to check my papers. He phoned someone who spoke English and when I explained what I was doing he stopped the traffic and got me a lift. Once at wolong no problem at all getting up Balangshan, even in the very early hours because virtually every lorry stopped to give a lift. Bit more difficult if wanting to look for wood snipe luckily there is/was a small hut near the top with a one eyed man who worked by pouring water on the brakes of the trucks before they came down. He offered a bunk for 50Y inc food. Somehow "everything turns out for the best in the best of all possible worlds" Have faith,do your research and give it a go. One recommendation is you make an English speaking friend so in case you really run into problems you can ring someone who can translate. I don't even have a mobile phone in uk so no need in China,wherever you are someone will have one. Would love to hear from you if you give it a go.

 

[jurek]

Looks like no fun - every time you must work a whole strategy of getting to the place, and usually for one good bird. Many other countries like India, Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia are incomparably easier. Sure, I travelled around China in the way you described when I was a backpacker, for cultural sights.

I still find it strange that China snubs its nose at money from international tourism, unlike almost all other countries in the world.

 

[MacHector]

Hi All

I am trying to organise a couple of days birding around Beijing in July and it is not easy. I could go to local parks, though I have done that already. Public transport doesn't take me to where I want to go. I can't legally hire a car. I can't find a local guide or birdingpal that will respond to my e-mails. I'd appreciate any bright ideas if anyone has them.

Cheers

Andrew

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Hi All

I am trying to organise a couple of days birding around Beijing in July and it is not easy. I could go to local parks, though I have done that already. Public transport doesn't take me to where I want to go. I can't legally hire a car. I can't find a local guide or birdingpal that will respond to my e-mails. I'd appreciate any bright ideas if anyone has them.

Cheers

Andrew

Might be worth going to Beidaihe, which you can get to fairly easily by train and stay at hotels on the doorstep of good birding. It's not the best time of year but you should start getting some decent wader passage in July, maybe stuff like Relict Gull and perhaps the odd early passerine migrant.

 

[Andy Adcock]

I have travelled and birded in China, both on organized tours and on my own. Any of the "on my own" was birding sessions added on to a business trip.

FWIW, you can easily go birding in city parks and various tourist sites, but getting to remote areas for specialties is a challenge. You basically need someone who speaks Chinese and your native language. I speak a little Chinese, so I have it easier than most foreigners, but it was still next to impossible to get to a lot of remote places on my own. And then as Owen noted, you still need to figure out how to get home.

I have birded in China with some expats who spoke Chinese. Other times, I hired a local guide who spoke decent English for a couple days in some places. One time I organized a car and translator through a small local hotel I was staying at (The owner lived in the US for a while), but I still had to figure out where to go and what I was looking at based on online reports.

Alternately, you could try to organize something in advance with a local birding tour operator or set up a day trip through your hotel (assuming where you're heading is a known tourist site), but as a westerner, you'll likely pay a price consistent with a western tour.

Add to that, the challenge of getting a visa, the cost of air travel just to get there, and similar issues, and I just think people pick other places over China for independent travel.

Agree, picking up a few species in City parks is an option but it won't get you many (any?) of the desired species. I don't think I know anyone who has done a proper, tour of China, indepedantly, the logistics are just insurmountable for most so you end up paying a packet to a tour company.

I spent a week in Beijing and saw some birds in a few places including a wonderful 10km trek on the Great Wall between Jinshanling and Simatai which is a regular tour day, offered by many hotels.

I stayed here

ZAOYUANJU (HUTONG INN) - Prices & Hotel Reviews (Beijing, China)

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Get from Jinshanling to Simatai | Jinshanling to Simatai Hike 2024

Jinshanling Great Wall is next to Simatai Great Wall, and accessible to each other by car. Get to know more about Jinshanling to Simatai Hike, Jinshanling to Simatai Tour, Great Wall Hiking Tour, etc.

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If you're ever im Macau, there is a very small cemetary which produced a few birds and the inscriptions on some of the gravestones were very interesting, one bloke had died of his injuries after falling through an open hatch on the deck of a ship!

Old Protestant Cemetery (Macau) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Andy Adcock]

Hi All

I am trying to organise a couple of days birding around Beijing in July and it is not easy. I could go to local parks, though I have done that already. Public transport doesn't take me to where I want to go. I can't legally hire a car. I can't find a local guide or birdingpal that will respond to my e-mails. I'd appreciate any bright ideas if anyone has them.

Cheers

Andrew

You can get to the botanical gardens and Fragrant hills by taxi, I stayed in the Hutong district which was really nice with staff being able to speak at least some English. There is also a small lake which could have Falcated Duck if you're there at the right time.

Will be pretty hot in July.