Birdlife is overdoing it (Times of Malta) (2 Viewers)

[Jacana]

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20100502/letters/birdlife-is-overdoing-it

Interesting to see it from the perspective of a non-hunting Maltan. Comments are rather interesting too.

My personal take on it is that what the hunters are unwilling to recognise is that they aren't "their" birds that they are shooting. They "belong" (if I many use that term) to the people of Europe as a whole.

They also state that they have been hunting and trapping for hundreds of years so why should we be worring about it now? Again they fail to appreciate that populations can often sustain damage to their numbers from one source eg hunting. however when their are multiple negative impacts such as desertification of their wintering grounds and change of farming practices in their summering grounds, populations become much more susceptable to declines.

I'm not saying that hunting should be banned. I'm all for hunting, but only in a sustainable form. I wonder how much longer our migratory birds will sustain these compounded onslaughts...

 

[John Cantelo]

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20100502/letters/birdlife-is-overdoing-it
They also state that they have been hunting and trapping for hundreds of years so why should we be worring about it now? ..

They certainly didn't have shotguns "hundreds" of years ago" and probably not as many as there seem to be now. Indeed it would be interesting to hear how bad 'hunting' was in the 40's and 50's and before. I'd have thought, being relatively poorer fewer people would have had guns and repeating shotguns would not have been available. As for trapping birds back then I suppose that there were rather fewer Maltese doing so and rather more birds.

Anyhow, I'm not sure the 'we've been doing it for years so it must be OK' arguments holds much weight - anyone of us could write a long list of evils that were taken as the norm "hundreds of years ago" that no civilised society would tolerate today,

 

[PandionMlt]

If you believe that the guy who wrote a letter is not a hunter trying to tarnish BLM's image, then you must still believe in the existence of the Dodo, the Great Auk and the Passenger Pigeon

 

[Upland Birder]

I think it would be good if the BBC made a documentary on what is happening in Malta in regard to the mass slaughter of birds thus bringing it to the public and governments attention. It could then be passed to Europe's parliament to act on.

Dean:t:

 

[Adam W]

They certainly didn't have shotguns "hundreds" of years ago" and probably not as many as there seem to be now. Indeed it would be interesting to hear how bad 'hunting' was in the 40's and 50's and before. I'd have thought, being relatively poorer fewer people would have had guns and repeating shotguns would not have been available. As for trapping birds back then I suppose that there were rather fewer Maltese doing so and rather more birds.

Anyhow, I'm not sure the 'we've been doing it for years so it must be OK' arguments holds much weight - anyone of us could write a long list of evils that were taken as the norm "hundreds of years ago" that no civilised society would tolerate today,

While I agree that the argument of 'we've been doing it for ages so its okay' is a pretty crap one I'm not quite sure what you are really getting at. Shot guns have been around a very long time(creeping into Hundreds of years) I regulary use one that was made in the 1890's and they were around long before that.Even repeating shot guns have been around quite a while possibly in the 40's and 50's though not regulary used but i dont see what relevance that has,why would it be okay for example to shoot a migrating Hoopoe with a 2 shot side by side or over and under but not a semi auto or pump action?

As i say i pretty much agree with most people that the terrible things that happen in Malta are wrong but i just dont see how what type of gun they use has any relevance at all.

 

[DunnoKev]

They certainly didn't have shotguns "hundreds" of years ago" and probably not as many as there seem to be now. Indeed it would be interesting to hear how bad 'hunting' was in the 40's and 50's and before. I'd have thought, being relatively poorer fewer people would have had guns and repeating shotguns would not have been available. As for trapping birds back then I suppose that there were rather fewer Maltese doing so and rather more birds.

Anyhow, I'm not sure the 'we've been doing it for years so it must be OK' arguments holds much weight - anyone of us could write a long list of evils that were taken as the norm "hundreds of years ago" that no civilised society would tolerate today,

But they certainly had muskets hundreds of years ago John. The relatively poor took more for the pot then as well. Then there was the Church.. Although things have moved on since it was published, try 'Fatal Flight;the Maltese obsession with killing birds' by Natalino Fenech (1992) for a good summary of the history of hunting and trapping there.

 

[willito]

I'm not saying that hunting should be banned. I'm all for hunting, but only in a sustainable form. I wonder how much longer our migratory birds will sustain these compounded onslaughts...

Hi,
I wonder what is to be understood for "sustainable hunting". As far as I can see, the only way would be by changing guns for cameras, if the challenge is to "shoot" the bird altogether. I have actually a couple of birding fellows who were hunters before and now have found the same (or even greater) fun and joy just taking photos. Most of the hunting equipment and skills have proved to be useful in this new fashion.

By the way, there are already documentaries on the subject. I actually got aware of the Maltese slaughter (at this corner of the world) through an Attenborough's series called "The first Eden", a rather old documentary about the Mediterranean "culture".

Regards,

Guillermo.

 

[Adam W]

Hi,
I wonder what is to be understood for "sustainable hunting". As far as I can see, the only way would be by changing guns for cameras.

I dont think that is true, its perfectly possible to carry out sustainable hunting I'm not saying that applies to this situation but there's nothing wrong with the very concept of sustainable hunting.

 

[willito]

Well, if you mean those who hunt for food, then I agree: there is kind of an equilibrium to be reached with the local ecosystem to get what they need without affecting long-term availability and that may well be called "sustainable hunting".

But as you already hint, the Maltese "tradition", "sport" or whatever you want to call such a slaughter, it is definitely not a practice that can possibly become sustainable in any reasonable way. The basic element of an actual "need to be satisfied" is not given, and then any intent to rationalize it is vane.

Anyway, this is geting a little bit out of the subject.

 

[Adam W]

Well, if you mean those who hunt for food, then I agree: there is kind of an equilibrium to be reached with the local ecosystem to get what they need without affecting long-term availability and that may well be called "sustainable hunting".

But as you already hint, the Maltese "tradition", "sport" or whatever you want to call such a slaughter, it is definitely not a practice that can possibly become sustainable in any reasonable way. The basic element of an actual "need to be satisfied" is not given, and then any intent to rationalize it is vane.

Anyway, this is geting a little bit out of the subject.

Yep I agree, like i said I dont think sustainable hunting is at all an appropriate term to apply to whats happening in Malta I just wanted to make the point that the very idea of sustainable hunting is a perfectly possible and quite resonable one.

 

[Robin Edwards]

I agree with John's sentiments. Tradition is not an acceptable answer - it was tradition not so long ago to trade in human labour between continents and burn heretics at the stake. Why is abuse of non-human elements of this planet so different ?

Sustainable shooting doesn't work if everyone wants to "have fun" as well as eat from the wild. The human population is not sustainable and completely at odds with the planet's declining wildlife. Sustainable shooting equates to clay-pigeons then

Robin

 

[z-ben]

I think it would be good if the BBC made a documentary on what is happening in Malta in regard to the mass slaughter of birds thus bringing it to the public and governments attention. It could then be passed to Europe's parliament to act on.

Dean:t:

LOLO WILLIAMS did just this thing recently unfortunately this was only shown on a welsh TV channel . As i understand it the film crew vehicles were shot at in this film.

 

[Irish Kite]

http://www.birdlifemalta.org/view.aspx?id=278

Is the above sustainable?? - these criminals will do or say anything to justify their thuggery:C

 

[Adam W]

Sustainable shooting doesn't work if everyone wants to "have fun" as well as eat from the wild. The human population is not sustainable and completely at odds with the planet's declining wildlife. Sustainable shooting equates to clay-pigeons then

Robin

I dare say if every person in the world decided to take up shooting it wouldnt be sustainable but we all now that nothing even close to that would ever happen so there is no reason why sensible legal shooting can not be sustainable for the relativly small amount of people who would ever want to do it anyway.

 

[Adam W]

http://www.birdlifemalta.org/view.aspx?id=278

Is the above sustainable?? - these criminals will do or say anything to justify their thuggery:C

Of course it isnt and I think we've all already agreed on that.

 

[Adin 92]

Its true that illegal hunting is decreasing compared to the 80`s 90`s and early 2000`s
were every bird that passed at gun range was shot....But nowadays the illegal hunting is pointing at Scarce and Rare birds.. This week after The Raptor Camp iv` seen a very close Short toed Eagle and when i mean close (its less than 20 mtrs!!!) after the bird was visible flying around for over 3 hrs and even at one point it manage to catch a prey... when it tried to roost , it was targeted by a bunch of scum..

First it was shot at twice but not hit, then i seen it resting on a boulder, it did not rest for more than 5 secs, that it was shot 4 times and lucikily it flew away but agian it was shot at 10 times!! and it was injured but eventually this massively strong bird manage to get away but still injured ...then it headed south were it met its fate .....TRULY DISGUSTING TO SEE IT WITH YOUR OWN EYES.... and the anger i had i wanted to go and crush that idiots head.

Also yesterday a Maltese Christian shot at an Osprey, that managed to catch a fish and while it was eating it ..

http://www.timesofmalta.com/article...prey-on-its-way-to-germany-for-rehabilitation for more info check it out

Also sometimes you get nice news for example a Lesser spotted eagle and a black stork were seen leaving roost without being killed, were in the past it was impossible to happen and also this week ive seen 35 Greater flamingo around the coast flying without getting disturbed by a bunch of assholes ...

 

[sneil]

Wasn't quite sure to which thread I should post this, as there seemed a number of possibilities, but I guess it isn't just a 'Mediterranean' problem. I had the misfortune to catch the end of a Russian language tv programme broadcasting in Tallin this week where a guy from Northern Ireland (and supported by at least one other British 'enthusiast' as recorder) undertook to break the world record (I use the term advisedly) for shooting birds in daylight hours. Over, apparently, thirteen and a half hours this person loosed off 9500 cartridges and hit 7314 (yes 7314!) birds. Whether he killed them outright, badly injured them, or just winged them, didn't seem to matter (for record purposes, you understand). As to the species hit, well at that kind of rapidity and intensity, he wouldn't have known what he was hitting, let alone care....and they wouldn't have found the bodies anyway. At semi-regular intervals, supporters (again I use the word advisedly) would chime in with 'ooh, nice bird' as it plummeted to earth. Right chuffed he was: his counter showing the record number would be mounted (I could suggest a suitable place!), and it was his 'gold medal'. In fact, he hoped his record would be beaten so he could come back and go for ten thousand.
As I say, I only caught the end of it, so I don't know the location (might it have been Russia?....I don't know), nor could I understand the Russian commentary and hence the overall tone of the programme, but the words of the protagonists were loud and clear (in English) and undoubtedly proud of their 'achievement').....perhaps some more research on the subject, somewhere(?)
I guess my point is that whilst two wrongs don't make a right, it doesn't 'alf make it difficult to condemn when our own islands produce such p*ll*cks. Sport, tradition, country pursuit.....?.....rubbish

 

[JD.1]

I can see the argument for blasting the crap out of these birds must be terrible starving to death those poor island people of malta
Isnt it about time that Kate Humble and all those other celebs get on to this via the media

 

[YourBirdOasis]

This is a very interesting and difficult situation, reminiscent of uncountable similar cases from around the world. It represents one of the biggest hurdles in terms of conservation; how do we go about balancing environmental and social needs in a way that benefits all implicated entities. It's very similar to the current crisis in the fisheries around the world. Fish populations are plummeting but fisherman don't want to stop because they would be out of work. It takes a lot of politics to solve these types of issues, but raising awareness is always the first step. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Andrew Rowlands]

This is a very interesting and difficult situation, reminiscent of uncountable similar cases from around the world. It represents one of the biggest hurdles in terms of conservation; how do we go about balancing environmental and social needs in a way that benefits all implicated entities. It's very similar to the current crisis in the fisheries around the world. Fish populations are plummeting but fisherman don't want to stop because they would be out of work. It takes a lot of politics to solve these types of issues, but raising awareness is always the first step. Thanks for sharing!

I don't see anything that suggests the illegal killing of wildlife in the Maltese archipeligo is a social neccessity.

Whatever the underlying issues are in Malta, it's going to take several generations to resolve, I think.