BOP seen this morning NE.London....? (1 Viewer)

[KenM]

Common Buzzard, no possible doubt; for those who doubt, there is a little easy detail here.

Adult HB have only the tip of the external primaries black. Juveniles HB are in Africa now. And here, clearly, external primaries are all black.

You might like to read BB 99. Feb 2006. Pages 95-97....and from Italy, quite illuminating, it's a good read.

 

[KenM]

Here are 2 more terrible, even ''more distant'' shots which imo show a fairly uncharacteristic CB shape?, deeply concaved forewing, projecting head, and long slim tail. Lou's comment regarding 2nd calendar year CB ie narrow wings, thus giving it a long tail impression I find baffling somewhat! Because that would mean (in all seriousness), having been surrounded by breeding CB for at least the last 5 years (SE England expansion)...and I've never seen an immature...really? I can recall seeing a party of 20+ CB's ''kettling'' around a local common a few Autumns ago, and guess what....they all had short tails :eek!:

The 3rd image relates to (which I'd forgotten about) a bird shot 6 minutes before the Buzzard appeared, another bad shot, not really conforming to a classic shape....but nevertheless interesting?

Cheers

 

[markspirito]

Here are 2 more terrible, even ''more distant'' shots which imo show a fairly uncharacteristic CB shape?, deeply concaved forewing, projecting head, and long slim tail. Lou's comment regarding 2nd calendar year CB ie narrow wings, thus giving it a long tail impression I find baffling somewhat! Because that would mean (in all seriousness), having been surrounded by breeding CB for at least the last 5 years (SE England expansion)...and I've never seen an immature...really? I can recall seeing a party of 20+ CB's ''kettling'' around a local common a few Autumns ago, and guess what....they all had short tails :eek!:

The 3rd image relates to (which I'd forgotten about) a bird shot 6 minutes before the Buzzard appeared, another bad shot, not really conforming to a classic shape....but nevertheless interesting?

Cheers

Image 3 is Ring Necked Parakeet in my opinion ?

Mark

 

[tconzemi]

Lou's comment regarding 2nd calendar year CB ie narrow wings, thus giving it a long tail impression I find baffling somewhat! Because that would mean (in all seriousness), having been surrounded by breeding CB for at least the last 5 years (SE England expansion)...and I've never seen an immature...really? I can recall seeing a party of 20+ CB's ''kettling'' around a local common a few Autumns ago, and guess what....they all had short tails :eek!:


Cheers

Thanks for sharing this great info to us, so we have to change every single raptor identification book

 

[lou salomon]

Here are 2 more terrible, even ''more distant'' shots which imo show a fairly uncharacteristic CB shape?, deeply concaved forewing, projecting head, and long slim tail. Lou's comment regarding 2nd calendar year CB ie narrow wings, thus giving it a long tail impression I find baffling somewhat! Because that would mean (in all seriousness), having been surrounded by breeding CB for at least the last 5 years (SE England expansion)...and I've never seen an immature...really? I can recall seeing a party of 20+ CB's ''kettling'' around a local common a few Autumns ago, and guess what....they all had short tails :eek!:

The 3rd image relates to (which I'd forgotten about) a bird shot 6 minutes before the Buzzard appeared, another bad shot, not really conforming to a classic shape....but nevertheless interesting?

Cheers

i rather believe you didn't pay them a thorough look because they were just buzzards. if you are very familiar with them you do recognize this consistant feature in first plumage common buzzards: their remiges are slightly shorter than the adult ones, right, peter?

 

[MTem]

Image 3 is Ring Necked Parakeet in my opinion ?

Mark

Kestrel for me.
Mick

Agree all the rest are CB - not that my opinion conveys the same level of experience as the two above!

 

[KenM]

i rather believe you didn't pay them a thorough look because they were just buzzards. if you are very familiar with them you do recognize this consistant feature in first plumage common buzzards: their remiges are slightly shorter than the adult ones, right, peter?

On the contrary Lou, It was the first time that I'd had the opportunity to be present beneath a large number of (post breeding dispersal?) CB's in good light, and I grilled all looking for?....correct HB....Nothing came close.

 

[Rotherbirder]

The 3rd image relates to (which I'd forgotten about) a bird shot 6 minutes before the Buzzard appeared, another bad shot, not really conforming to a classic shape....but nevertheless interesting?

Cheers

Not really conforming to a classic shape of ... what exactly, may I ask? You post purporting to be doing so for 'educational' purposes when all you manage to do is confuse! I personally find it more difficult to work out what you are actually saying in your posts than to identify the birds in the accompanying images!

 

[KenM]

Not really conforming to a classic shape of ... what exactly, may I ask? You post purporting to be doing so for 'educational' purposes when all you manage to do is confuse! I personally find it more difficult to work out what you are actually saying in your posts than to identify the birds in the accompanying images!

Well clearly Mick was not confused......?

I've replaced the 2nd image in post 42 (as it was not the intended image, my mistake...apologies, they all look similar when viewed as thumbnails) and taken out the Kestrel (3rd image), and have substituted it with an HB shot taken in Aug.'13. showing perhaps a shorter tail for HB? albeit this bird was migrating in a continuous level, flap, flap, glide. I don't know if when in this flight mode, a degree of tail compression is employed (less resistance for sustained flight?) Clearly the ''moving parts'' are not set in stone, which is very much a feature of BOPS...as we all know...or should? However on balance, to reiterate it would appear that consensually (posts...almost), support a feeling that it looked odd? (as compared to the lifetime of CB's that I've experienced). I had the advantage of seeing it with the naked eye somewhat closer than the resulting images show. Of course I could have wished for better images, unfortunately there aren't any, much to my disappointment.

Cheers

 

[Gordon]

I did a screen grab and adjusted the lighting in Elements. Doing that it "appears" that the carpal is actually quite extensive. Also, the overall underwing pattern can be seen to appear like a HB (or a juvenile CB if one is so inclined). I think, given the quality of the pics (no offence intended) the identification to species is open... not saying either view is right or wrong.

It reminds me of a discussion recently when someone asked for an ID based on the call - 2 camps immediately opened up, both stating that it was "definitely" a Peregrine and the other Green Woodpecker. Both camps were able to produce experts (ie, people with acknowledged experience of both species... members of raptor study groups, international film makers etc) but at the end of the discussion I don't think anybody changed their minds - despite sonograms being presented for comparison. At least no-one came back to acknowledge they were wrong despite the more objective evidence that was put forward.

 

[Andy Adcock]

We need to empanel a jury................

If I had glimpsed this bird briefly over my patch in Russia I'd probably have put it down as a HB based on the superficial evaluation of the apparent shape.

A

 

[Andrew Rowlands]

CB's being chased by corvids do tend to 'stretch' out and extend the neck/look over their shoulders, making their outlines considerably more variable than when seen in their normal, relaxed, soaring/gliding flight modes etc.

Watch the bird(s) closely using good optics and the naked eye; relying on what you see through a camera viewfinder and distant snapshots of a few milliseconds of time is not a substitute.

 

[KenM]

CB's being chased by corvids do tend to 'stretch' out and extend the neck/look over their shoulders, making their outlines considerably more variable than when seen in their normal, relaxed, soaring/gliding flight modes etc.

Watch the bird(s) closely using good optics and the naked eye; relying on what you see through a camera viewfinder and distant snapshots of a few milliseconds of time is not a substitute.

It was first picked up through bins!...however the time elapse before relocating through the viewfinder, and getting it in focus (not easy..sensor kept losing it) was perhaps (20 sec.), bird was always going away, resulted in half a dozen shots, then a short film clip (when it was at it's furthest) and these last awful grabs were the net result. I believe that the combination of tail length and narrowness would be a difficult profile to find on CB? Also I've lightened the last image to show an ''apparant'' bar to the tail base, however this could easily be dismissed as a ''coincidental artefact?'' I believe on the day birds turned up on Scilly and Kent, as I've been informed.

Cheers

 

[rosbifs]

One thing you have is the most talked about common buzzard in the history of birdwatching.

Your lightening up image purely comes nfirms that the 'tail' element is in fact SHORT....

 

[Andy Adcock]

One thing you have is the most talked about common buzzard in the history of birdwatching.

Your lightening up image purely comes nfirms that the 'tail' element is in fact SHORT....

You don't really want to give this thread more fuel surely!


A

 

[rosbifs]

You don't really want to give this thread more fuel surely!


A

Not really but I have already 'drawn' lines on the tail of the bird, based on the images provided, with an adjustment for 'gait', and it clearly has a short tail.

 

[AlinoVegano]

Common Buzzard, no possible doubt; for those who doubt, there is a little easy detail here.

Adult HB have only the tip of the external primaries black. Juveniles HB are in Africa now. And here, clearly, external primaries are all black.

Did you notice my comment? I think this excludes definitely HB...

 

[Rotherbirder]

One thing you have is the most talked about common buzzard in the history of birdwatching.

Your lightening up image purely comes nfirms that the 'tail' element is in fact SHORT....

Exactly! It never ceases to "amaze" me just how much time we all spend - myself included - discussing these "dead end" threads when we could be doing something useful - like birding (though this "apparant" (sic) opinion is obviously not "set in stone")! Ever heard the story of the boy who cried wolf, Ken? I see obvious parallels developing.

 

[Vague Bird News]

https://youtu.be/VjEq-r2agqc

 

[KenM]

Not really but I have already 'drawn' lines on the tail of the bird, based on the images provided, with an adjustment for 'gait', and it clearly has a short tail.

I can only assume that you are mistaking the starboard wing for the tail?

As the tail through the bins was obviously long, as shown in the images?