Bunting ID (W France, january 5th) (2 Viewers)

[jogresh]

First thought was Reed Bunting but I'm leaning more towards Cirl now. Edit - cross posted with Pete. Tricky, for me anyway.

 

[petemorris]

First thought was Reed Bunting but I'm leaning more towards Cirl now. Edit - cross posted with Pete. Tricky, for me anyway.

What pro Cirl Bunting features does it have? Cirl would not have crossed my mind really. Reed and Cirl are not typically confusion species, though granted, the pic is not great.

 

[dantheman]

I too wondered what people were seeing Cirl in this and wondered Reed ... still on the fence but ...

Tail length - better for eg Cirl? (Or am I imagining it?!)
White tipped scapulars or whatever - better for Cirl, or artefact?
Wide rear flaring to supercilium - better for eg Cirl?
Tramlines - Reed Bunt.

Maybe it's all too much and artefact on the altered image.

 

[Bismarck Honeyeater]

What pro Cirl Bunting features does it have? Cirl would not have crossed my mind really. Reed and Cirl are not typically confusion species, though granted, the pic is not great.

In the original image, it looked to have an olive wash to the breast, which helped, as nd the gave markings looked like the stripes of a Cirl, I didn’t like the mantle I must admit.

 

[Kandahar]

It doesn't look like a Reed Bunting but more like a Cirl. I've seen both in France and I would also say the choice of perch is important. I don't recall seeing reed buntings perching on wires - they're very much in the reeds. Cirl Buntings, however, perch on wires all the time.

 

[Butty]

I would also say the choice of perch is important

I'm afraid it isn't.

 

[Kandahar]

One could say the choice of perch relates to bird behaviour and bird behaviour is an important factor in identifying the species of bird. That is what my statement was referencing.

 

[Butty]

Indeed so - in the field. But a single photo of a bird using a perch which you consider (but isn't) atypical counts - I'm afraid - for nothing in its ID.

 

[dantheman]

Sorry to disagree Butty, but it's definitely a clue (behaviour, typical or atypical is always useful). Not sure it can be given a huge amount of weight, but then neither can anything else in this ambivalent photo it seems!


We don't have the OP to ask, but it would make more of a sizeable difference if we knew whether the bird was perched singing on the wire, or had just been flushed up by them and perched fleetingly for example.

(My experience may be limited, but don't recall seeing Reed Buntings on wires either - they tend to be much lower)

 

[RichieTwitchy]

It doesn't look like a Reed Bunting but more like a Cirl. I've seen both in France and I would also say the choice of perch is important. I don't recall seeing reed buntings perching on wires - they're very much in the reeds. Cirl Buntings, however, perch on wires all the time.

Found this on Facebook -

 

[Gduff]

Sorry to disagree Butty, but it's definitely a clue (behaviour, typical or atypical is always useful). Not sure it can be given a huge amount of weight, but then neither can anything else in this ambivalent photo it seems!


We don't have the OP to ask, but it would make more of a sizeable difference if we knew whether the bird was perched singing on the wire, or had just been flushed up by them and perched fleetingly for example.

(My experience may be limited, but don't recall seeing Reed Buntings on wires either - they tend to be much lower)

the OP told me that the encounter was very brief, allowing him to take only one photo, then leave. The bird didn't call nor sing

 

[dantheman]

the OP told me that the encounter was very brief, allowing him to take only one photo, then leave. The bird didn't call nor sing

Cheers.

So could fit the flushed bird scenario (ie anything still goes ... ) but at least (imo, others may differ?) takes away the possibility a higher certainty that it's something that habitually perches high up.

(Helps but doesn't help ;-) )

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello Gduff,
Can you ask the photographer for the original picture? Thanks!

It's still a Cirl Bunting imo, but you know I am happy to corrected and learn

 

[Gduff]

Hello Gduff,
Can you ask the photographer for the original picture? Thanks!

It's still a Cirl Bunting imo, but you know I am happy to corrected and learn

Here's what he sent me