Bushnell Legend Ultra HD: $300 Chinese ED from Bushnell (2 Viewers)

[dbuss]

Bushnell Elites

[BUT.....if I were needing a 10x glass, i.e., didn't have one, I would really be considering one of the new 10x43 Elites. At its price pt, around $800 most places (and have seen 'em on ebay new for about $100 less), it's a real sleeper. Generous eye relief, good fov, very sharp, bright, neutral and contrasty, with only about the last 10% of the field showing a little edge softness. Ya gotta go way up the price ladder to match 'em, and get into the primo "alfas" for any real improvement.....and even then it's a judgment call. If you haven't tried one, do so. Now I only tried the 10x, so can't say much about the 8, tho' I'd assume performance would be similar.[/QUOTE]

I couldn't agree more. The Bushnell 10x43 Elite is a pleasure to use especially if you like a 10x binocular. The focusing is smooth and precise giving you a clear, bright and sharp view of the bird. The relatively light weight and easy handling of the binocular is an added bonus. Not too long ago Bushnell priced these up with the "alphas." Current pricing make these worth serious consideration.

 

[jab-law]

I recently got the 10x42 Ultra HD bin. I am just a novice, but I certainly can tell the difference between what I see thru these and my Yosemites (another great little bin). Color is very good -- and depth of field seems pretty good for a 10x as well. They also work well in the cold weather -- WAY better than the Yosemites which just freeze up for focusing in the cold.

My only issue (so far) is the IPD on these so somewhat wider than what I find comfortable -- one of the things I like about the Yosemites. I have a narrow face, and the Bushnell HD is closed down all the way so it bearly fits over my nose -- and the picture window still has some gray on the outer edges depending on where I look. It is not too much of a problem, but I sometimes do have to adjust my gaze inside the window to get the best view, whereas with the Yosemites it is just right there all the time. However, I must say that the combination of the Bushnell 10x42 HD with the Yosemite 6x30 is really nice -- the Yosemites can see just about everything, and the 10x gets you right up close. Both are waterproof, so they look like a good combo for canoe/kayak as well.

 

[richt]

Hi

Not sure anyone answered the query i posted on the Bushnell Ultra HD ref the Dielectic coatings so will bump it again
I'm guessing the Legend Ultra HD is a silver coating but could be wrong
Anyone know for sure please ?


Original post below

"Hi All

Just to clarify one more thing on the coatings please
The Legend Ultra has PC3 phase coatings but does it also have the XTR coatings some earlier Bushnell Discoverers had ?
I think the XTR coatings on some of the higher end Bushnells are dielectric rather than silver or aluminium
I guess it would make a small difference in light transmissions "


Regards
RichT

 

[RJM]

I would say XTR probably means dielectric but at this price point I would worried if the Legends had them! A poorly applied dielectric does more harm than good and any dielectric bins under $500 probably use "seconds" that didn't pass inspection for prisms destined for higher priced bins.

Rick

 

[NDhunter]

I would say XTR probably means dielectric but at this price point I would worried if the Legends had them! A poorly applied dielectric does more harm than good and any dielectric bins under $500 probably use "seconds" that didn't pass inspection for prisms destined for higher priced bins.

Rick

Rick:
Interesting your take on dielectric, I agree that a premium applied silver
in a higher end optic would have an advantage over the "dielectric" applied
by some of the new, mostly chinese bins.

Do you have knowledge of how 2nds, are used in todays binocular manufacturing?

With corners obviously being cut in the hurried processes that must be used today, a person wonders how quality control is performed.

If you think how a modern binocular can be manufactured, packed in a nice box, with a decent case, shipped overseas, allowing a margin for all the parties involved, etc. it makes you think, doesn't it.

For some of us, the difference is so obvious, when just picking up a quality Japanese, or European made product, compared to the others.

For some here an interesting excercise is to take a flashlight and shine it down through the objectives and have a look at the insides, you will certainly see what I mean.

Quote by Brocknroller: "Nothing satisfies like quality".

Jerry

 

[RJM]

Jerry, my understanding of the Japanese optics biz is that optical parts coming off the production lines are tested and binned (just like microprocessors are sorted by speed capabilites) with the very best quality destined for the premium optics we get now from some "alpha" and "beta" brands with those of lesser quality trickling down to the retailer "house" brands and "omega" rebranders. There apparently is now very little vertical intergration in the optics biz, with just one company/factory carrying out the entire process from design, manufacturing, assembly and packaging.

I am pretty sure the Chinese factories follow/copied the same production model. Given the huge Chinese stimulus to keep their factories running despite the slack consumer demand, I expect we will start to see even more price lows in 2010 as inventories swell. Who know's, maybe we could even see new low cost series bins rolled out by the "alphas"!

Also, the internet-based rebranders just don't have the overhead of the long established brands or optics bricks & mortar retailers so even with agressive pricing they can still turn 30%+ margins. Selling just 40-50 bins a month out of your apartment from a webstore can net $50K/yr in profits. And if you can get buzz up with some clever "viral" marketing watch how fast the $$ really piles up! But with price their only feature to sell through, these brands tend to fade just as fast as they rise. Sometimes I wonder if it not the same people churning the same products under different brands over the web? Once your brand loses its buzz, the entry barrier for starting a new brand is minimal afterall.:h?:

All that said, I can appreciate the value the rebranders can deliver now. But I prefer to buy with an eye towards resale values. There are over 3500+ binoculars for sale on Japan's largest auction site. Yet week after week less than 100 items ever draw bids. Those that do are almost exclusively the global brand name binouclars that are well priced. The lesser known names even priced as low as 1 yen never get sold! So the lesson of "nothing satisfies like quality" needs the corrollary "nothing holds value like a global brand name."

happy 2010!
Rick

 

[richt]

Hi Rick

Thanks for the reply and info i didnt actually realise dielectric coatings could be "seconds" so to speak
Interesting thought given that one newer Chinese ED binocular attracting major attention right now has issued a revised model with dielectric coatings as one of the gains
I would assume these are superior to the metallized earlier model as they are from the same company but your post has made me look at this process in a different light somewhat
I kind of always saw dielectric stuff as synonymous with the Alpha and top end players
Does anyone else have info on variables in the dielectric coating process ?

Regards
RichT

 

[RJM]

Hi Rich,

I believe Kowa and Zeiss were the first to bring dielectric reflective coatings to the market. As with "ED", their overall contribution to a better image is probably marginal to the typical consumer. Nevertheless, this "feature" now has traction and probably helps sales. More importantly for OEMs, binoculars having it provide higher margins.

But because it is deposited in several more layers than standard silver coatings, there is more chance for optical defects in the finished prism. However, even before the coating process we can assume prism batches are probably optically graded and sorted, just like diamonds. More likely, any prism "seconds" were such even before being coated.

Finally, it is important to remember that the inherently low fixed magnification of binoculars does not require highly polished and refined optics. I would be real suprised if even the best exceeded accuracy in excess of 1/5 wave. There are some nice profits in selling through to the highend of the binocular market!

cheers,
Rick

PS: Just got email indicating my 2 pair of Legend HDs are on their way and I should hopefully have them by Thursday. Yay!

 

[dj1230]

Eyecup out of alignment

I ordered these binoculars shortly before Chirstmas based on the amazing price offered on Amazon and the mostly favorable reviews elsewhere on the internet. But Bushnell appearantly has some QC problems with this item. The right eyecup extended about 1/16" longer than the left. Plus, the specs state 17mm of eye relief.
The left eyecup extended only 14mm - I had to hold the bins about 1/8" away from my eyes to see the entire field. Otherwise, I would see a noticeable shadow (or kidney-bean effect) in the eyepiece. This is without glasses. They may work just fine with glasses. The view with the ED glass is certainly one of the best at this price point. But without a clear view, I returned them for a refund. There was a recent review here on the Bushnell Excursions. They exhibited the same problem. Someone on this forum seemed to feel these were esentially the same bin - but with ED glass.

 

[NWBirder]

Hi Rick


I would assume these are superior to the metallized earlier model as they are from the same company but your post has made me look at this process in a different light somewhat
I kind of always saw dielectric stuff as synonymous with the Alpha and top end players
Does anyone else have info on variables in the dielectric coating process ?

Regards
RichT

From what I gathered, the metal coating will suffer from oxidation if waterproof seal is broken. You may see gradual decrease of brightness. Not sure how that will affect the resolution over the time.

 

[RJM]

Getting these for just under $200 was such a no-brainer that I bought an extra pair for backup. Still less together than a single pair of Audubon ED 8.5x44. If they can give similar Audubon performance with the same ergonomics as my Kowa BD8x32 I will be quite pleased. And with a lifetime warranty from a global brand with a 50yr. history, why worry? Silver and aluminum will last a longer than I have left to live if taken care of.

Rick

 

[Tero]

Ok, the 10x42 Ultra HD is here. Seems pretty solid. Eye cups smooth so far.

The sun was just setting. I had time to compare to the Pentax 8x32 SP. I think the Pentax is still my most used bino. I also have a Pentax 10x42 that I do not like quite as much. This falls somewhere between. The 10x power is quite pleasant to the eye, and I do not see diopter problems so far. Near to far, the focus goes nearly a whole revolution, counterclockwise.

More tests later. My Promaster will then go for repair after I have compared those two. I paid nearly $100 more for the Promaster. They have been OK so far, one eye cup has developed a problem.

Quick add: I do need to adjust the diopter from a 20ft to longer distance. This had been pretty much the same thing with all my 10xs. Some 6 so far.

Looking at the three I still have, Promaster are the longest, Pentax SP and Bushnell HD are the same length. So the Bushnell is no relation to Promaster, ZenRay etc.

 

[NDhunter]

Getting these for just under $200 was such a no-brainer that I bought an extra pair for backup. Still less together than a single pair of Audubon ED 8.5x44. If they can give similar Audubon performance with the same ergonomics as my Kowa BD8x32 I will be quite pleased. And with a lifetime warranty from a global brand with a 50yr. history, why worry? Silver and aluminum will last a longer than I have left to live if taken care of.

Rick

Rick, are you taking a chance by ordering 2 pair without looking through them first? Lots of ifs here, I hope you have a return option if things are not what you are hoping. I would like to see a nice review comparing them to the ZenRays.

Jerry

 

[RJM]

Jerry, my gamble is since the original Legend comes "highly recommended" by CN bino guru Edz that the Ultra HD might be even better. Favorable FOREX and buying a brand name gives me some downside resale protection here in Japan if they don't meet my needs.

I'm afraid you will never see a ZR review from me. I only buy established brand name optics. Just the way I roll.

cheers,
Rick

 

[NDhunter]

Jerry, my gamble is since the original Legend comes "highly recommended" by CN bino guru Edz that the Ultra HD might be even better. Favorable FOREX and buying a brand name gives me some downside resale protection here in Japan if they don't meet my needs.

I'm afraid you will never see a ZR review from me. I only buy established brand name optics. Just the way I roll.

cheers,
Rick

Rick:
I see where you are coming from, I too prefer the proven types, name and
reputation do have a lot of value. Make sure you give us an update on your purchase. Can you obtain the Bushnells easily in Japan?

On the Nikon forum, Briggz is getting a new 8x32SE, from my experience he
should be in for a treat. Anticipation of a new optic is fun, and I hope you
enjoy yours.

Jerry

 

[Tero]

Quick indoors experiments with the Promaster 10x and Legend HD 10x show a very similar sharpness, bith better than my Pentax 10x SP. Not theat th Pentax is bad, it is better than my old Monarch 10x was.

Handling is good, I do not really need open frame binos. Slight problem with putting up the binos to the eyes with the Bushnells, more IPOD adjustment needed than I am uised to, and I can produce blackouts more easily with the Bushnells than with the other 10x I have.

So eye relief might be an issue. Check the specs on the 8x to see if it has better eye relief.

My Promasters will go in for repair, so I will probably keep the Bushnells.

 

[Tero]

Well, the binos are much the same, Promaster and Bushnell, but in use the Promaster is better handling. Here are my three 10x pairs. Two still have stickers! One after some years.

The Bushnells are compact, but not smaller in size, only in weight, than the Pentax SP.

 

[RJM]

How is the strap and harness quality?

Mine seem to be still stuck in the USPS. Tracking indicates they haven't even made it to international departure gateway city!! Grrr...

 

[Tero]

I did not examine those yet, but it seems to have both a strap and a harness. The strap is maybe 4cm wide, very well padded. I did not take it out of the bag. I have a loaner strap on it for outside testing.

 

[Tero]

The strap works well, and the 10x42s feel quite light. I am able to use them as I have any other 10x42. Eye cups OK, no real blackout problem, and no need ot adjust diopter in field. Was able to ID a hairy woodpecker fairly far off.

With glasses on, not as useful, eye relief needs glasses that come close to the eye.

My ProMaster 10x is out to repair, so could not compare.