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Cannot decide - RX10iv, FZ100ii or FZ330 (1 Viewer)

I want to buy my first proper camera, and its main use will be for photographing birds. I am pretty sure it’s between these 3, but I am just going round in circles.

I like the price and weather resistance of the FZ330, but not sure about the smaller sensor?

I can stomach the price of the FZ1000ii and like the sound of the bigger sensor, but it lacks the weather resistance.

I can stretch to the price of the RX10iv, but not without wincing a bit, and it seems to be well into mirrorless territory (although maybe not depending on lens capability), but does sound like it’s a cut above the rest.

The sensible route might be the FZ330 while I learn the ropes, then go for a mirrorless setup in the future when I would have a better idea of what I want. But then I think the FZ1000ii is only a couple of £00 more, and it’s a more recent design - on the other hand, it’s got no weather resistance, and I’m in NW Scotland…..

Is the FZ1000ii a better build quality than the FZ330, weather resistance aside?

Would the image quality of the FZ330, with the smaller sensor, be noticeably inferior, particularly as a beginner?
 
The sensible route might be the FZ330 while I learn the ropes

This is exactly what I did and for the same reason.

You may want to consider that Panasonic do their own 1.7 converter for the FZ330 which will give you more range. I bought a used FZ330 and with the brand new converter probably something like 450 quid together. The converter is easy to fit and use and I didn't notice any particular image quality impact by having more glass. The other point worth noting is that the FZ330 lens is well respected.

Having said all of that, in retrospect it wasn't the right move for me. I never, ever owned cameras of any description. Even on holiday I rarely took a camera and so I thought there's a good chance I won't be able to get to grips with it. With more experience, photographing birds is nowhere near as complicated and difficult as I assumed, and there's a lot to be said for finding your basic settings and keeping it simple. Getting some nice pictures is not all about the technical aspects of the camera.

I think the reach is important and with the FZ330 I found myself just out of range at times, which is why I moved to the Nikon P950.

If I was in your position now, with your budget, knowing what I know now, I'd go for the Nikon P900. That's if you can get hold of one. If you're lucky you may pick up a well maintained used P900 for a few hundred quid. It's broadly the same camera as the P950, except it doesn't shoot RAW and a couple of other bits and pieces. I never use the RAW option anyway, the likes of you and I won't notice any difference in the quality of JPEG versus RAW.

Just a quick google and Park Cameras are advertising a used P900 for 450 quid and so that's the sort of price you'd be looking at. When they say in good condition, they mean it and it will come with a warranty. A word of warning, don't buy through OnBuy, whether new or used. They'll advertise products at something like 50 quid cheaper than competitors but if anything goes wrong with the product, you'll have a job on your hands to get your money back. They don't have a telephone number for you to speak with them, and there's a good reason for that.

The FZ330 is considered to be the best budget entry level bridge camera. But, outside of that, the other, more expensive bridge cameras all have their pros and cons. My primary concern was having the reach based on my experience with the FZ330, but it may not be for others.

Danielbirdwatcher has posted pictures on here using the P900. I think his latest ones are with the P1000 but have a look at his pictures and it will tell you which ones were with the P900. 'Worth a look.

Oh, and it may be useful to listen to Chris Bray of the National Geographic, free YouTube tutorials for beginners. Aussie fella and an excellent tutor who in everything he says makes it clear it's a creative pursuit, meant to be enjoyable and not something you should get frustrated with by getting lost in the technical aspects of cameras.

Good luck!
 
I can stretch to the price of the RX10iv, but not without wincing a bit, and it seems to be well into mirrorless territory (although maybe not depending on lens capability), but does sound like it’s a cut above the rest.
The Sony is a bit of a different thing; it handles like a dslr/mirrorless and its image quality is really not too far behind. When I swapped from the a SLR due to getting fed up with the weight, I described it as 2/3 of the quality for 1/3 of the weight. An excellent camera which many people I know got after my recommendation. I have to admit I have now gone to an OM1 but I haven't been able to bring myself to sell the Sony.
 
The Sony is a bit of a different thing; it handles like a dslr/mirrorless and its image quality is really not too far behind. When I swapped from the a SLR due to getting fed up with the weight, I described it as 2/3 of the quality for 1/3 of the weight. An excellent camera which many people I know got after my recommendation. I have to admit I have now gone to an OM1 but I haven't been able to bring myself to sell the Sony.
The larger sensor of the Sony compared to the FZ330 brings amazing improvements. At the price of weight and less reach, however. But the main plus is the so very much better focus capture. It's a considerably more complicated tool, but I have now all the variables I actually use assembled under the main Fn button. And I think that's the way to go at least until one feels extremely comfortable with the camera. I still have my FZ200, but it sees very little use now.
 
Thanks for all the replies. My head says £400 on the FZ330 (or less used) is the sensible option, and the least amount lost if it turns out I’m either crap at photography or lose interest in it. And also, if it goes the other way, and I want to trade it in or supplement it with a mirrorless camera and posh lens, that would be more palatable if I’ve not spent £1000+ on the first one.
 
Thanks for all the replies. My head says £400 on the FZ330 (or less used) is the sensible option, and the least amount lost if it turns out I’m either crap at photography or lose interest in it. And also, if it goes the other way, and I want to trade it in or supplement it with a mirrorless camera and posh lens, that would be more palatable if I’ve not spent £1000+ on the first one.
I'm not sure anyone is 'crap at photography'; it's a matter of practice. Do bear in mind it's a lot harder to get a decent shot with a camera with less good focus capabilities and a smaller sensor. But it is a lot cheaper; there is no getting away from that.
 
Point taken. So is the FZ1000ii, with the larger sensor and newer tech (2019?) a good compromise then? Shorter focal length at 400mm though.
400mm equivalent is definitely on the short side for birds. 600mm is the minimum I would chose for bird photography. I'm afraid it is not a camera I know anything about. I believe the Sony ploughs its own furrow; there isn't really anything similar. It just feels the same as using a SLR/mirrorless.
 
Was there any particular reason for ditching the Sony in favour of the OM1?
Yes. It's another league up again. Much better in low light. Fantastic autofocus with bird and mammal detect. Better reach. Obviously it's considerably more expensive too. It is a fair bit heavier than the Sony but considerably lighter than the Canon 7D mark ii and the Canon 100 - 400 which I mainly lugged around.
 
Thanks for all the replies. My head says £400 on the FZ330 (or less used) is the sensible option, and the least amount lost if it turns out I’m either crap at photography or lose interest in it. And also, if it goes the other way, and I want to trade it in or supplement it with a mirrorless camera and posh lens, that would be more palatable if I’ve not spent £1000+ on the first one.

Joe,

When you first buy a camera, you have no idea what you're doing with it in the sense of what conditions and scenarios will lead to a decent picture. After using it a bit, you look back at when you were first taking pictures and think why didn't I realise what I know now. It seems obvious after a while but it really isn't when you first start. I suppose that's the organic learning process that we all have to go through.

The reason for saying that is the starting point when you buy any camera shouldn't be the camera itself, but rather how you're going to use a camera and this should drive the type of camera you buy.

Considerations such as how much spare time you have, are you able to drop everything when there is good light, the types of birds you're primarily looking to photograph and their habitat, how agile you are/health conditions, how you're going to take pictures, e.g. standing up or sitting/lying down, and so on.

All of these will determine how much you can get out of a bridge camera/superzoom and it follows whether or not it is the right buy for you. One of the most important is: when the sun turns up, can you get out of the house/away from work with your camera? If not, then a bridge camera/superzoom is going to be of limited use to you.

To illustrate: in the event I have a few hours spare on a cloudy day, I take my camera in case it brightens up and if doesn't I don't even get it out of my bag because I know that it's not going to be a picture worth keeping and therefore I'm wasting my time and I'm getting on birds' nerves for no good reason. I use that time for just watching or looking for interesting places where something interesting may turn up. It follows that if I wasn't able to get out when there is good light, the Nikon P950, or any other bridge camera/superzoom for that matter; would be no good to me.

When you first start taking pictures, the light or whatever won't matter. You'll be happy to get some pictures of birds. As time goes on, you'll look at other people's pictures and think why can't I do that. You'll read, learn and so on and you'll improve. One day you'll get a really nice picture and you'll realise it was taken in good light. In your mind, you'll have set a bit of a standard for yourself and you'll be thinking: "when I take pictures, this is the type of picture I want and expect". The problem is, if you're only able to get out on the odd sunny day because of home and work commitments, then you're not going to be able to meet those expectations you have set for yourself because more often than not you'll be taking pictures when it's cloudy.

There's always the chance of course that you think as long as you get some pictures then the quality doesn't matter so much, but I think this goes against human nature and trying to do as well as we can, and I reckon, like most people; the quality of the pictures will matter to you and it will only be a couple of weeks of taking pictures before you're thinking: I need to do better than this.

You may think that a buying a budget level entry bridge camera, e.g. FZ330, is saving you money. Actually it could be money down the drain and it may even deter you from pursuing what could become a very worthwhile hobby giving you a lot of pleasure. As said, in the event you usually get out on a cloudy day due to commitments, then a bridge camera/superzoom will not get you decent pictures and you could think it's not for you but actually the issue would be that you have the wrong type of camera for your situation.

You mentioned that you're not sure it will be for you. I was like that and that was part of the reason I bought the FZ330. You'll find yourself in some beautiful places, you'll meet some interesting people with interesting stories to tell who have devoted a lifetime's spare time to watching birds and so on, you'll enjoy watching the birds floating around and singing on a nice sunny day, you'll enjoy just being out in nature and walking. There's a lot to enjoy and make it worthwhile.

Were I you, I would post exactly how much time you have, what commitments you have and the types of places you'll be going to watching birds. People with experience of using bridge cameras/superzooms, and people who have have experience of DSLR, and people who have experience of both; will be able to give you a better idea of whether buying the FZ330, or any other bridge camera/superzoom, is money well spent or money down the drain.
 
Thanks Paul,

I hadn’t thought much about the points you raise to be honest. I’ve started birdwatching primarily to get away from the busyness of work and family life, to have a bit of peace and quiet and relax a bit. I work shifts and have busy kids, so no, I can’t drop everything to take advantage of perfect weather conditions, I have to take what I get. I’ve got a couple of trips planned, but by and large at the moment I’m just grabbing opportunities when they arise. I’m fortunate to live somewhere with abundant wildlife, so for example if I’ve taken the boys to a bike race or something, I’m able to take a walk through the forest for a couple of hours, or along a coastline for a bit, that sort of thing. I live on the NW coast of Scotland, so have the sea, mountains and forests to enjoy.

In some respects, watching the birds is enough for me, that’s the primary objective, I just think it would be nice to capture that sometimes. Last week I left my house and right in front of me a sparrowhawk caught a pigeon, so I stayed to watch it for a while. I was probably as close as 10m from it and it was there a while having it’s tea, but I had nothing to take a picture with other than my phone, with the limitations that has.

At the moment, no, I probably won’t be going out for a whole day every week to find elusive birds and wait hours to get a perfect picture, it’ll be much more opportunistic. I always have my binoculars in the car ready to go, and quite often park up at the shore on my way home and watch the birds for a while. In the future, maybe different - I’m not too many years away from retirement, and then will have the freedom and time to take advantage of the best days.

So I am hesitant to spend a ton of cash and it end up being a waste of money due to underuse, but at the same time don’t want to buy something that’s no better than a smartphone, which would also be a waste.
 
So I am hesitant to spend a ton of cash and it end up being a waste of money due to underuse, but at the same time don’t want to buy something that’s no better than a smartphone, which would also be a waste.
So I would buy good gear second hand and resell it if you decide it's not for you. MPB are excellent for buying and selling.
 
Thanks Paul,

I hadn’t thought much about the points you raise to be honest. I’ve started birdwatching primarily to get away from the busyness of work and family life, to have a bit of peace and quiet and relax a bit. I work shifts and have busy kids, so no, I can’t drop everything to take advantage of perfect weather conditions, I have to take what I get. I’ve got a couple of trips planned, but by and large at the moment I’m just grabbing opportunities when they arise. I’m fortunate to live somewhere with abundant wildlife, so for example if I’ve taken the boys to a bike race or something, I’m able to take a walk through the forest for a couple of hours, or along a coastline for a bit, that sort of thing. I live on the NW coast of Scotland, so have the sea, mountains and forests to enjoy.

In some respects, watching the birds is enough for me, that’s the primary objective, I just think it would be nice to capture that sometimes. Last week I left my house and right in front of me a sparrowhawk caught a pigeon, so I stayed to watch it for a while. I was probably as close as 10m from it and it was there a while having it’s tea, but I had nothing to take a picture with other than my phone, with the limitations that has.

At the moment, no, I probably won’t be going out for a whole day every week to find elusive birds and wait hours to get a perfect picture, it’ll be much more opportunistic. I always have my binoculars in the car ready to go, and quite often park up at the shore on my way home and watch the birds for a while. In the future, maybe different - I’m not too many years away from retirement, and then will have the freedom and time to take advantage of the best days.

So I am hesitant to spend a ton of cash and it end up being a waste of money due to underuse, but at the same time don’t want to buy something that’s no better than a smartphone, which would also be a waste.

No bother, Joe.

Based on that and in your situation, I'd probably go for a bridge camera/superzoom of some description also, due to price.

And, since having cameras and taking more notice of the weather, we have a lot more sun than I ever imagined. I'm in North East England so I doubt it's much different to North West Scotland.

I'd consider the Nikon P900. It has more than three times the zoom of the FZ330 and you'll find that zoom matters. It looks like used prices are approx. 450 quid P900 and 300 quid FZ330. I think that extra 150 quid is money well spent. It gets you into range and in most cases birds won't come close enough for the FZ330 unless you have a lot of time to be patient and just sit and wait, which you appear to be saying that you don't have that time.

I'd just be mindful that when you take pictures with a bridge camera/superzoom on a cloudy day, you may be a bit disappointed with the result. Don't let that put you off because when you get a nice day you'll see that these cameras can get you some nice pictures.

These cameras will be a good introduction for you and if it's not for you, you could sell it without losing much money at all.

'Nothing to lose really.

And the Nikon menu is easy to use/follow. Easier than the Panasonic.

Whichever way you go, I'm sure people on here will give you advice with camera settings and the like to get you started before working out which settings suit you best for yourself.

Good luck with it, mate!
 
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