Chestnut-vented Conebill puzzle, Brazil RJ (1 Viewer)

[opisska]

Again REGUA (lowland swamp in lush forest near Rio) with a more specific problem - these two look to me like a nice pair of Chestnut-vented Conebills - apart from the fact that the female is not supposed to have the chestnut vent according to both books and photos online ... Am I completely wrong with these?

 

[Nutcracker]

Sorry, no idea on Brazilian birds; bumping so it doesn't get forgotten

 

[opisska]

Sorry, no idea on Brazilian birds; bumping so it doesn't get forgotten

Yes, thanks for the idea!

Look, esteemed friends, these are not distant smudges on chip, but seriously clear closeup pictures, only with a single mismatched plumage feature, an easy way to get imaginary internet achievements for anyone familiar with Conebills!

 

[Andy Hurley]

http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/search.php?searchid=255327

These are the 8 CV Conebills from the Gallery. The female doesn't have a chestnut vent in the photo there. Could they be both males of differing ages?
I've never been to South America, so I haven't a clue about these birds. The Opus article is a stub, so maybe you could add your knowledge to it? Some knowledge is better than none, and in your case I doubt that its dangerous

 

[opisska]

I am still hoping for an expert to come around, because the "female CV conebill" could be something completely different - in my experience, this happens quite a lot with birds in this general area, where many different families meet and you can have quite similarly-looking birds that are completely unrelated, leading one often to being fixated in one direction, when the answer is obvious, but in completely different part of the tree.

On a side note - one can just go and edit Opus? I thought you need to be some kind of an approved editor for that, no?

 

[Peter C.]

The Chestnut-vented Conbill comes up in two references that I have, but neither of them gives any hint at all what the young look like. However, a hint that Andy may be on to something (i.e., that it is an age difference, the young males looking "female-like" as juveniles), may be in one photo I found on-line (link below). It is labelled "male, juvenile" and exhibits some male characters (such as the vent colour and striking blue back) and some female characters (green secondaries, wing coverts).

Looks to me very much like a bird in transition - perhaps (and this is only speculation), if one thinks of "turning back the clock" on this bird, it would at some point look much like the "female-type" bird in the original post.

http://en.wikiaves.com/898041&t=s&s=11624
Peter C.

 

[njlarsen]

On a side note - one can just go and edit Opus? I thought you need to be some kind of an approved editor for that, no?

Correct, Opus is open for editing by general BF members. The people labeled editors do that more often than most others, and can sometimes find solutions to things that are not obvious when you start.

Niels

PS: my little pet project is the pages labeled resources: http://www.birdforum.net/opus/Resources_Portal

 

[Fritz73]

Both are Chestnut-vented Conebills (#1 female and #2 male).

 

[Peter C.]

Both are Chestnut-vented Conebills (#1 female and #2 male).

Have you seen lots? (I would imagine you have.) Do the females commonly have chestnut in the vent?

PC.

 

[Fritz73]

On the females the color of the vent is buff. Poor light situation (specially in photos) will show same more darker than it is. Rest of the colors of the bird indicates a female and the form of the bird including bill clearly is a Conebill.