Chiffchaff sp - Kyzylkum desert, Uzbekistan 30 May 22 (1 Viewer)

[Muppit17]

I have t admit to being confused by this warbler seen in the Kyzylkum desert (Grid ref; 40.458, 63.005) relatively close to the Turkmenistan border (c170m asl). It kept to the tamarisks, as was a bit of a 'jigsaw bird', never really showing clearly.

It had a distinctly brownish cast, with no hint of green in the plumage and immediately reminded me of Mountain Chiffchaff, although I have only seen them in the Caucasus Mountains (P.lorenzii). With the photos taken, and the only ref there, namely the Helm guide 'Birds of Central Asia' the best fit appeared to be P.c.menzbieri.

However reading the paper Chiffchaffs in Iran and Armenia
and also other sources, it appears that menzbieri is greener, & cleaner on the underparts - not showing the 'vest' and pale throat that are a feature of the helm guide illustration. Also the range is questionable being too far north and east, but with apparently P. sindianus wintering at low level in this part of Uzbekistan.

Does anyone have any clues to the proper identification?

Many thanks

 

[MJB]

I have t admit to being confused by this warbler seen in the Kyzylkum desert (Grid ref; 40.458, 63.005) relatively close to the Turkmenistan border (c170m asl). It kept to the tamarisks, as was a bit of a 'jigsaw bird', never really showing clearly.

It had a distinctly brownish cast, with no hint of green in the plumage and immediately reminded me of Mountain Chiffchaff, although I have only seen them in the Caucasus Mountains (P.lorenzii). With the photos taken, and the only ref there, namely the Helm guide 'Birds of Central Asia' the best fit appeared to be P.c.menzbieri.

However reading the paper Chiffchaffs in Iran and Armenia
and also other sources, it appears that menzbieri is greener, & cleaner on the underparts - not showing the 'vest' and pale throat that are a feature of the helm guide illustration. Also the range is questionable being too far north and east, but with apparently P. sindianus wintering at low level in this part of Uzbekistan.

Does anyone have any clues to the proper identification?

Many thanks

Willow Warbler ssp yakutensis can be very brown and dark-legged, but also slightly longer-winged than the nominate. See: More on Acredula and Yakutensis Willow warblers
MJB

 

[KenM]

Think? I can see emarginations on p3,4,5 and 6 also the pp does look fairly short, that should put it in the Chiffchaff camp.👍

Cheers

 

[Muppit17]

Willow Warbler ssp yakutensis can be very brown and dark-legged, but also slightly longer-winged than the nominate. See: More on Acredula and Yakutensis Willow warblers
MJB

All the yakutensis I have seen have seemed very grey and extended, no doubt due to the longer pp. This bird looked nothing like my memory of them. Happy to be corrected, but looked short winged & IMHO the photos support this impression. Will post some more when I am able

 

[Muppit17]

A few more photos of the same bird

 

[jogresh]

Hmmm it's a fair while since i've seen one, but i'm wondering about Plain Leaf Warbler? Not got time right now for more than a quick look. But the species is mapped as breeding about 300 km south-east by Birdlife so not too far to overshoot; and the maps may not be 100% accurate. It looks a little bit like Mountain Chiffchaff but not quite right (again, i'm rusty) and the breeding distribution is further away. A quick look at images of Plain Leaf seem similar to your bird though...?

 

[Muppit17]

Hmmm it's a fair while since i've seen one, but i'm wondering about Plain Leaf Warbler? Not got time right now for more than a quick look. But the species is mapped as breeding about 300 km south-east by Birdlife so not too far to overshoot; and the maps may not be 100% accurate. It looks a little bit like Mountain Chiffchaff but not quite right (again, i'm rusty) and the breeding distribution is further away. A quick look at images of Plain Leaf seem similar to your bird though...?

Certainly an interesting thought, and one I hadn't considered. Certainly it is 30 years since I have seen them, although pretty common around where I used to live, but always in the mountains even in winter. There are lot of plus points, but the notch tail appears to be at odds with literature. It also didn't strike me as being that small, but it did not share a bush with other birds and the only other species around was Streaked Scrub Warbler. (which didn't seem much different on size).
Not sure how to use the rictal bristles distinction!

 

[KenM]

Obviously not a showy bird being perhaps more covert in it’s movements, did you notice any wing-flicking Muppit?

Cheers

 

[Muppit17]

Obviously not a showy bird being perhaps more covert in it’s movements, did you notice any wing-flicking Muppit?

Cheers

No wing flicking - I would say just a typical chiffchaff (or PLW) on movements, but neither was there any tail pumping.

Most of the actions were limited by the wispy tamarisks and a bit of wind. It was also totally silent throughout.

 

[KenM]

No wing flicking - I would say just a typical chiffchaff (or PLW) on movements, but neither was there any tail pumping.

Most of the actions were limited by the wispy tamarisks and a bit of wind. It was also totally silent throughout.

I had reason to research PLW last year, which in the course of- I gleaned smaller than CC, and with a noticeably shorter tail, essentially a brown bird with no vestige of green in the plumage.
Further more, looking at some film clips appearing to wing flick, which was given as a possible feature?
But then we’ve probably all seen Chiffies that don’t tail pump profusely…indeed sometimes not even at all!
Thus behaviour can be problematic and very much mood dependent.👍

 

[Muppit17]

I had reason to research PLW last year, which in the course of- I gleaned smaller than CC, and with a noticeably shorter tail, essentially a brown bird with no vestige of green in the plumage.
Further more, looking at some film clips appearing to wing flick, which was given as a possible feature?
But then we’ve probably all seen Chiffies that don’t tail pump profusely…indeed sometimes not even at all!
Thus behaviour can be problematic and very much mood dependent.👍

I have to admit that wing flicking was not a feature I remember from when I saw PLW regularly. Happy to accept that my memory is playing tricks.

 

[KenM]

I have to admit that wing flicking was not a feature I remember from when I saw PLW regularly. Happy to accept that my memory is playing tricks.

I wouldn’t know, however they’re visibly shorter than CC and “short-tailed?”

Cheers

 

[Muppit17]

I wouldn’t know, however they’re visibly shorter than CC and “short-tailed?”

Cheers

Small, hyperactive and brownish - almost approaching 'crests in size and behaviour is how I would describe PLW. It is didn't ring those sort of bells with me but still could have been.

I think from what I have read that menzbieri is definitely out, the picture in Birds of Central Asia is not representative of any other image I can find, and from range it is limited to the Turkmenistan/Iran border area.

As for others - PLW, tristis or sindianus are still possibilities but there are problems with each.

 

[KenM]

Small, hyperactive and brownish - almost approaching 'crests in size and behaviour is how I would describe PLW. It is didn't ring those sort of bells with me but still could have been.

I think from what I have read that menzbieri is definitely out, the picture in Birds of Central Asia is not representative of any other image I can find, and from range it is limited to the Turkmenistan/Iran border area.

As for others - PLW, tristis or sindianus are still possibilities but there are problems with each.

You’ve certainly whet my appetite for PLW!
Since 2020 (COVID) I’ve trebled my daily birding time from the house, essentially the back garden from the bedroom window.

The garden is stocked mostly with native trees, e.g between mid-July and mid October ‘20,
I had c90 Chiffy visits through this period, olive/tan and brown types.

Last year I had c10% less, point being my eye is well in on Phylloscs and often at close quarters, sometimes a few metres as indeed the “subject bird” was.

The bird in question was between Crest and Chiffy in size, brown with no visible green tints and it came with a very complete short tail.

Although I had brief views, it’s structure and movement again was non Chiff, frenetic is how I’d describe it, “almost” being entirely obscured from view as it moved through the dense leafage most unlike CC.

I was looking down on it all the time (whilst it was active, only giving splintered nanosecond views) as close as perhaps three metres on one occasion.

I didn’t see the head pattern, or the leg colour, or the pp, or the emarginations, that said they surely ran a poor second to what I did see!
The date was Oct.8th.

Cheers

 

[Butty]

...as indeed the “subject bird” was.
The bird in question was...

What 'subject bird’/’bird in question'? The only bird in question so far has been the OP's bird in Uzbekistan.

 

[dantheman]

What 'subject bird’/’bird in question'? The only bird in question so far has been the OP's bird in Uzbekistan.

Different bird, c3854 miles away but could be related? Shame, but don't think there are any images.

 

[KenM]

What 'subject bird’/’bird in question'? The only bird in question so far has been the OP's bird in Uzbekistan.

I was talking to someone who has greater experience than I, regarding PLW, I thought that was abundantly clear and not about his particular “problem bird” after all, I have no experience in that region, never having visited and not likely to either.

 

[KenM]

Different bird, c3854 miles away but could be related? Shame, but don't think there are any images.

Very frustrating Dan, being so close and yet unable to procure any images and that’s with camera to hand and pre-focused to a point 3metres away.😩

 

[Butty]

...I thought that was abundantly clear...

Quite.

 

[andyb39]

@Muppit17 I can't get beyond Mountain Chiffchaff myself. Supercilium is too long and distinct for PLW, tail is too long and forked and overall I'm not getting that big-headed, short-tailed impression.