Common Moorhen or Common Gallinule (6 Viewers)

[Kirk Roth]

Bird names often have rich and valued heritages.

I've been told by knowledgeable friends (Barry Walker et al) that 'moor' of 'moorhen' traces back appropriately to Old English and predecessors meaning marsh or small pond. Not my expertise, but a quick online dictionary check of "moor" yields the following:

Origin: before 900; Middle English more, Old English mōr; cognate with Dutch moer, German Moor marsh. Old English mōr; related to Old Saxon mōr, Old High German muor swamp]

Not so bad a name after all!

Indeed, the english word "marsh" traces from the plural "mors" (moors).

 

[RoyW]

What many folks on this side of the pond object to is that we do not have "moors" over here, or, if we do, we do not know what they are. I picture a cold, fog enshrouded, mucky pond in Scotland somewhere. That's the last place I'd look for a Gallinule I'd most of its range. Again, the genus is Gallinula, what is wrong with Gallinule?

Andy

I don't really see why an understanding of the derivation of a bird name, or knowing what it means, is a consideration when deciding on a name.
If "Moorhen" was the name that is chosen for all, or some, members of Gallinula, then all that is necessary is for birders to know that they are called 'Moorhens', not why.

The etymology can easily be looked up by those who are interested.

Presumably anyone who does object to a name on the basis that they don't understand it's meaning already readily understand the meaning of all names that they do accept? (eg. Phalarope, Jaeger or Skua, Guillemot* etc.), and if Gallinule and/or Phalarope are acceptable because they follow the scientific name, presumably that means that the meaning of the scientific name is understood?



*I find 'Guillemot' to be an interesting one, because surely the name of Black Guillemot for Cepphus grylle implies that it is a black version of a Guillemot - this works in the UK, but not in the US where the Guillemot, Uria aalge, is called a Murre.

 

[birdboybowley]

That's ok....we'll just split Black Guillemot into Black Murre....

 

[Snapdragyn]

*I find 'Guillemot' to be an interesting one, because surely the name of Black Guillemot for Cepphus grylle implies that it is a black version of a Guillemot - this works in the UK, but not in the US where the Guillemot, Uria aalge, is called a Murre.

Actually, I think it works better in the U.S., where 'Guillemot' is restricted to Cephus (Black, Pigeon, & Spectacled - the last in Asia, of course), while both Uria are referred to as 'Murres' (Common & Thick-billed). It's those silly Brits who have it all confused.

 

[birdboybowley]

... It's those silly Brits who have it all confused.

Ha ha ha - let's not even get started on that American Robin rubbish or the whole 'buzzard' debacle....:-O

 

[fugl]

Ha ha ha - let's not even get started on that American Robin rubbish or the whole 'buzzard' debacle....:-O

Not to mention the fatuous "diver" nonsense . . ..

 

[RoyW]

Actually, I think it works better in the U.S., where 'Guillemot' is restricted to Cephus (Black, Pigeon, & Spectacled - the last in Asia, of course), while both Uria are referred to as 'Murres' (Common & Thick-billed). It's those silly Brits who have it all confused.

Using different names for the two genera is OK - but you then have three guillemot species, with the one with the least extensively black breeding plumage being the one that's called black. I see that the sensible Americans aren't confused at all. :-O


Anyway, wasn't this thread about Moorhens/Gallinules until I mentioned Guillemots?8-P

 

[GMK]

Not to mention the fatuous "diver" nonsense . . ..

Quite so, but remember (or learn) that “loon”, “jaeger” etc. are also Old English names, not North American inventions! At least some of us on the east side of the Atlantic are quite happy to employ such terminology, especially in the first case, whereby a far more distinctive and evocative name is given to a genus of birds (Gavia) that are far from unique in “diving”.

 

[fugl]

Quite so, but remember (or learn) that “loon”, “jaeger” etc. are also Old English names, not North American inventions!

Indeed, but as you might remember (or learn) "loon" & "jaeger" aren't "Old English" inventions either, the first being borrowed from the Scandinavian, the second from the German.

 

[birdboybowley]

Not to mention the fatuous "diver" nonsense . . ..

Hey, it dives therefore....
All I can say is 'fanny'....plain wrong. End of!! :-O

 

[njlarsen]

OK, now that this thread is definitely off on several big tangents, I want to ask another question: how is Guillemot actually pronounced? like in French as one would get from the spelling?

Niels

 

[birdboybowley]

Gillymot is how I say it, hard 'G'

 

[njlarsen]

And the ll does not become one the "j" like sounds?

Niels

 

[davercox]

Gillymot is how I say it, hard 'G'

That's the way.

And the ll does not become one the "j" like sounds?
Niels

Not in British English, no. The language is full of words derived from French, many still spelt the same as in French, but not pronounced that way. Dammit, we're British you know.

 

[DMW]

Broonick's Gillymot - can't get more English than that!

 

[chris butterworth]

TANGENT ALERT!!!!!!!. J-ayger or Y-ayger????????????

Chris :smoke:

 

[McMadd]

TANGENT ALERT!!!!!!!. J-ayger or Y-ayger????????????

Chris :smoke:

Silly boy...it's pro'nouned SKUA...SKEW-AH ;D

McM

 

[chris butterworth]

Silly boy...it's pro'nouned SKUA...SKEW-AH ;D

McM

Thanx. I consider myself suitably chastised. :-C:-C:-C

Chris

( or is that chastized? )

 

[Kirk Roth]

TANGENT ALERT!!!!!!!. J-ayger or Y-ayger????????????

Chris :smoke:

"Yay-grr"

Named, I think, after the typical reactions after seeing one on a pelagic trip: initial elation, followed by anger that it got away before being identified to the species...