Creeping Ladies Tresses in Norfolk (1 Viewer)

[davidearlgray]

Hi all, thinking of going to Norfolk at the weekend, and just wondered if anybody got any info on Creeping Ladies Tresses in the Holkham area?
If you want to email privately, have no problem with that!
I look forward to your replies,
Cheers,
Dave Gray. :t:

 

[C Dell]

Creeping Ladies Tresses

Hi all, thinking of going to Norfolk at the weekend, and just wondered if anybody got any info on Creeping Ladies Tresses in the Holkham area?
If you want to email privately, have no problem with that!
I look forward to your replies,
Cheers,
Dave Gray. :t:

Hi Dave

I saw Creeping Ladies Tresses at Holt Country Park several years ago. I assume they are still there. The rangers were very helpful.

Cheers

Clare

 

[Edward woodwood]

Cheers for that info

I'd also very much like to see these and would appreciate a PM too if the info is thought to be sensitive

Tim

 

[maslyni]

Hi all, thinking of going to Norfolk at the weekend, and just wondered if anybody got any info on Creeping Ladies Tresses in the Holkham area?
If you want to email privately, have no problem with that!
I look forward to your replies,
Cheers,
Dave Gray. :t:

CLT is now very difficult at Holt Country Park , but they are there. You need to ask the Rangers ( note the site office is only open limited hours ) , they will tell you where to look and may even show you the plants.

M

 

[Ghostly Vision]

Hi all,

CLT is about had it at Holt these days, as Mark says. Sometimes getting a ranger is difficult, and even then there's no guarantee he knows where the plants are.

Numbers vary from year to year at Holkham, and I'm not sure how they are doing this year. The person who gave me the site there did ask me not to pass it on, so presumably the area is sensitive/private. (I have not been myself).

Sorry not to have more on this one, but there is a good site in Cumbria where they ar emore likely to be wild and not transplants form Scottish forests - as all the Norfolk ones are.

GV

 

[Edward woodwood]

Hey Sean

cheers for info - no worries; one for next year

I've heard the Foxley Butterfly Orchid may have been stolen...

not good eh?

Tim

 

[Tranquility Base]

I went looking for the CLTs at half term: blanked, I'm afraid! But then, I didn't see any wardens (or anyone else, in fact!) Did find a Twayblade, though!

 

[James Blake]

I found some at Holkham about four years ago, somewhere west of the gap, under pines right on the seaward side of the plantation. can't remember more than that!

Sean - in their field guide, the Harraps claim it's not cut and dried how the Norfolk population got there, and present arguments either way. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts...

all the best
James

 

[Tranquility Base]

Ten........... maybe fifteen years ago the Dell at Wells Woods held a phenomenal population of Marsh Helleborines. Anyone know if they're still there?

 

[Edward woodwood]

Ten........... maybe fifteen years ago the Dell at Wells Woods held a phenomenal population of Marsh Helleborines. Anyone know if they're still there?

plenty at Upton Fen TB

Tim

 

[Ghostly Vision]

I found some at Holkham about four years ago, somewhere west of the gap, under pines right on the seaward side of the plantation. can't remember more than that!

Sean - in their field guide, the Harraps claim it's not cut and dried how the Norfolk population got there, and present arguments either way. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts...

all the best
James

Thanks James - haven't read that, but will do so and come back on it.

Remember where Simon and Anne live, though.....


GV

 

[maslyni]

I found some at Holkham about four years ago, somewhere west of the gap, under pines right on the seaward side of the plantation. can't remember more than that!

Sean - in their field guide, the Harraps claim it's not cut and dried how the Norfolk population got there, and present arguments either way. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts...

all the best
James

The Harrap's make an interesting case for the defence. However , it is somewhat weakened by the knowledge that similar populations also existed in Cumbria and Northumberland , again in plantations ,most ( all ? ) of which have now apparently died out.

Personally I wouldn't let it stop me seeing the Norfolk plants, and indeed it didn't last year. If you do see this species have a good sniff ,the scent is amazing.

Mark

 

[Ghostly Vision]

Agree with Mark on this one; whether intro'd or not, the Norfolk plants are worth seeing - as are the Northern English ones, which could of course equally be accidental transplants. It is curious that Lesser Twayblade grows next to Goodyera plants at the Cumbria site - just as they might in a Caledonian Forest.

Typically, most Lesser twayblades grow under heather in wet moorland flushes - under-cover plants I thought were confined to Scotland.

The things are divine anyway - here's a couple of pics for your delectation.

 

[James Blake]

I agree too it's not clear how these tresses got to Norfolk...would be interesting to know if there were genetic differences from the Scottish populations.
atb
James

 

[Silver]

I agree too it's not clear how these tresses got to Norfolk...would be interesting to know if there were genetic differences from the Scottish populations.
atb
James

There is a programme of genetic (DNA) analysis of some Scottish pinewood species going on right now. I think Goodyera is included, though I may be wrong.

I'll pass on a suggestion of including the Norfolk population - probably not practical but it would be interesting if the Norfolk plants were distinct.

Alan

 

[maslyni]

Agree with Mark on this one; whether intro'd or not, the Norfolk plants are worth seeing - as are the Northern English ones, which could of course equally be accidental transplants. It is curious that Lesser Twayblade grows next to Goodyera plants at the Cumbria site - just as they might in a Caledonian Forest.

Typically, most Lesser twayblades grow under heather in wet moorland flushes - under-cover plants I thought were confined to Scotland.

The things are divine anyway - here's a couple of pics for your delectation.

The latest thinking on the ( non-plantation ) Cumbrian plants is that they are a genuine part of the indigenous flora, with Lesser Twayblade and CLT occurring side by side in at least 2 wooded sites, with a (possibly extinct
- meaning I couldn't find any when I looked ) population of Twayblades alone at a third site. At all three sites the Pinus are self-sown.


Mark

 

[JCL]

BUMPING... re CLTs at Holt country park... Does anyone know if they are still present? Even scarcer now? I am up in the Broads for a week early June, and keen to catch up with a few flowers as well as inverts.

 

[James Hunter]

BUMPING... re CLTs at Holt country park... Does anyone know if they are still present? Even scarcer now? I am up in the Broads for a week early June, and keen to catch up with a few flowers as well as inverts.

Hi James - I think early June is way early - but I'm back at work tomorow so contact me there

cheers

James

 

[IJS]

BUMPING... re CLTs at Holt country park... Does anyone know if they are still present? Even scarcer now? I am up in the Broads for a week early June, and keen to catch up with a few flowers as well as inverts.

hi
They are very scarce there now after work took place there a few years ago. I know of just a single clump left. They are hoping it will come back in time.

Your best chance of seeing them is up on the coast at Holkham. Early June is too early for them though. Early to mid July is when they will be in flower.

Ian

 

[AdrianW]

Went to Holt today; not a sausage. The warden was helpful, but he said he hadn't seen any this year - I had a look anyway, but I couldn't find anything either.

I may have been too early; but I didn't find any rosettes either.