Damsel ID required (1 Viewer)

[Paul Rule]

Can anyone help to ID this Damselfly.

Seen at Paxton Pits (Cambs) last Friday. The nearest I can find in my field guide is female Dainty Damselfly, but I doubt if I could have been lucky enough to find one of those, so I would appreciate some expert help here.

Paul

 

[mike coleman]

Hi Paul

Looks like a mature Blue female Azure Damsel to me......

 

[harry eales]

Can anyone help to ID this Damselfly.

Seen at Paxton Pits (Cambs) last Friday. The nearest I can find in my field guide is female Dainty Damselfly, but I doubt if I could have been lucky enough to find one of those, so I would appreciate some expert help here.

Paul

It looks like we have differences of opinion over this. I think it is the blue female form of The Variable Damselfly. This species does occur in your area, although somewhat scarce over most of the British Isles.

Harry.

 

[Brian Stone]

My vote is for female Azure here. The abdo segs 1 & 2 match the pic on p.81 of the Brooks book very well. I have attached two pics of a female Variable taken in Norfolk two weeks ago for comparison.

 

[harry eales]

My vote is for female Azure here. The abdo segs 1 & 2 match the pic on p.81 of the Brooks book very well. I have attached two pics of a female Variable taken in Norfolk two weeks ago for comparison.

Sorry to disagree with you Brian, but the Variable Damsel is variable in colour marking shape. The original thumbnail shows blue patterning on segments 7 and 8 whereas in the Azure they are simply a narrow blue band. Vertical overheads shots like your no 2 are easier to ID than angled shots.

Harry

 

[Paul Rule]

Interesting. My originally thought was that this was a Variable, in which case it would be a 1st for this site. I have sent the pic to the Dragonfly Society but am still waiting a response from them.

 

[Paul Rule]

Maybe this close-up Image will help?

 

[harry eales]

Maybe this close-up Image will help?

Not a lot Paul, unfortunately, there is variation in both Azure and Variable Damselfies, on segments 1 and 2.

Have you a similar picture of the last four segments of the abdomen?

Harry

 

[mike coleman]

I'm not helping matters, but after a bit of reading, I still think it's an Azure...........

 

[Paul Rule]

Tricky game this aint it. Last 4 segments attached

 

[harry eales]

Tricky game this aint it. Last 4 segments attached

Hi Paul,
Fortunately it's not always a tricky game.
Right, having compared your picture (above) with the blue female forms of both variable and Azure Damselflies in Steve Brooks book pages 81 and 83 I am still sure it is a Variable Damselfly. There are distince shapes to the blue areas on the last four abdominal segments. In Azure they are just a blue crossline.

Disagreements over these two species causes more 'punch up's' than a political argument. Lol.

Harry

 

[mike coleman]

Do Variables really have such a white body? Aren't they nearly always more greeny? And aren't Azures quite variable in amounts of blue, even down to segs 8 and 9?

Don't mind me, I haven't seen either for years...........

 

[HarassedDad]

Ahem... if a newby might be permitted to put his threehappence worth? My votes for variable as well.

Harassed Dad

 

[Paul Rule]

Harry,

Any more thoughts from you?

Paul

 

[harry eales]

Harry,

Any more thoughts from you?

Paul

Hi Paul,
My vote is still for Variable Damselfly, Unfortunately identification from a single photograph can be fraught with problems, Flash can change colours, or reflect back at the lense, or a badly angled shot may not reveal all the diagnostic features, etc.

Whenever there is doubt over identification a specimen should always be taken for someone else to examine (this does not necessarily mean killing the insect).

I appreciate the possiblility of a problem with ID may not have occurred to you when the picture was taken, and in view of the differences of opinion over which species this is, I think you may have to write this one off.

In future it may be better to take several shots from different angles (if that is possible), that way we may be able to determine a more positive identification.

Harry

 

[Brian Stone]

If I might be permitted a bump of this thread.

Have you had any further opinion on this one Paul?

 

[Paul Rule]

Sorry I ment to do this ages ago, but things got busy and I forgot. I did get a reply from the British Dragonfly Soc, and according to them it's a fem Azure.

Paul

 

[mike coleman]

Sorry I ment to do this ages ago, but things got busy and I forgot. I did get a reply from the British Dragonfly Soc, and according to them it's a fem Azure.

Paul

I don't know whether that's good or bad news, but at least it clears it up

 

[harry eales]

Sorry I ment to do this ages ago, but things got busy and I forgot. I did get a reply from the British Dragonfly Soc, and according to them it's a fem Azure.

Paul

Hmmm, I'm still not convinced, all the more reason for netting uncertain specimens and giving them a closer examination. But then some folks aren't willing to do that, even when a possible rarity is involved. No offence meant.

Harry

 

[Angus T]

Missed this thread when originally started.
I'd call this female Azure, for reasons that'll have to wait till I have more time, this evening or tomorrow.

Cheers