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Dielectric Coatings - Potential Drawbacks? (1 Viewer)

Tringa45

Well-known member
Europe
Schmidt-Pechan prisms are the most widely used roof prism type in current binoculars. Compared to Abbe-König prisms they are more compact but have two disadvantages.
The first, which has been widely discussed here, is the need for one prism surface to provide total internal reflection and direct transmission. This demands a compromise in the anti-reflection coatings.

The second disadvantage is that the angle of incidence on one reflective surface is too acute for total internal reflection, requiring a mirror coating.
Up to the turn of the century this was usually provided by metallic coatings, either aluminium or silver. Recently these have been largely displaced by dielectric coatings.
Now dielectric coatings can, for a specific angle of incidence and a narrow wavelength band, provide reflectivity of up to 99,999% and allegedly around 99% for the visible spectrum. This is a few percent better than metallic coatings and anything with a numerically higher value has to be superior - right? ;)
The transmission values quoted by the optics manufacturers are usually a peak value at a specific wavelength and this says nothing about the values at the extremes of the visible spectrum.

We know that one manufacturer, Meopta, has adhered to some form of silver coatings. They don't go into details but it's possible that they use a few dielectric layers between the glass surface and the silver coating to improve the peak value and maintain good transmission into the red.
Leica binoculars are often praised for their rendering of red tones and I have often suspected that they do something similar.

Take a look at the transmission curves for Leica and Meopta binoculars on Allbinos. They are still around 50-60% at 800 nm, comparable to some Zeiss binoculars with Abbe-König prisms, whereas recent Swarovskis start to plummet at 650 nm and are down to 60% at 700 nm.

Here is an interesting link: Baader BBHS ® reflective properties / Baader Planetarium Blog Posts. Astronomers would probably like to have correct images but roof edges generate spikes on bright light sources and even the 1 arcsecond (1/3600th of a degree!) tolerance on the 90° roof angle might not be adequate for high magnifications. Most are content with a prism or mirror diagonal giving an upright but reversed left/right image. Prisms which are not part of the original optical design, especially if used with modern "fast" focal ratio scopes can cause chromatic and spherical aberration, so mirrors are preferred and it seems that silver coatings can offer some advantages in colour rendering and lack of scatter over dielectrics. The only disadvantage is that they are less robust, but this is of no consequence in a sealed binocular.

Lastly, here is an iluustration from Wikipedia showing the function of a dielectric mirror: Dielectric mirror - Wikipedia. I have no idea if the lateral shift of reflections at different layers is of any consequence, but it does look rather disturbing.

John
 
I have no idea if the lateral shift of reflections at different layers is of any consequence, but it does look rather disturbing.
From an intuitive ray/particle standpoint... but interference effects involve the wave nature of light. Still I agree, I'd rather have a slightly larger bin with simpler prisms to put my mind at rest, even if it involves only aesthetics -- as I'm never entirely convinced.
 
Hi John,

While not about the main subject of your thread - dielectric coatings - to clarify one point . . .

A Schmidt-Pechan prism pair is even more compromised than you describe, as it has 3 surfaces that perform
combined transmission and reflection functions!

Looking at the example below, besides the final exit face there is also the side of each prism that faces the other.

From left to right, SchmidPechan, Uppendahl and Abbe-Koenig prisms:

3x roof prisms.jpg

The first and last images are from Wikipedia, and the middle one is from Holger at: Informationen zum Uppendahl Prisma


As can be seen, the Uppendahl has 2 combined surfaces, the initial prism face and the last face.
But in contrast, the physically longer Abbe-Koening has no such complication
i.e. the physically shorter length of both the S-P and Uppenhahl prisms is obtained by more folding of the light path
- 6 reflections verses 4 - but at the cost of some optical complication.


In terms of the total number of reflections, all three examples fail to show the 2 reflections that occur at the roof
(where the light column is split in two, with each half reflected off one of the roof surfaces and then the other, and then recombined).
Compare the effect on the orientation of an image when it is reflected off a single face, and when off a dual surface roof:

Effect of Roof  .jpg

The first is from Edmund Optics: https://www.edmundoptics.com/knowle...n-notes/optics/introduction-to-optical-prisms
and the second is from Wikipedia showing a simple Amici roof prism.


John
 
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A Schmidt-Pechan prism pair is even more compromised than you describe, as it has 3 surfaces that perform
combined transmission and reflection functions!
Thank you, John for drawing our attention to that. As far as I recall, mention had previously only been made of the single surface.
If we considered a binocular with 8° TFoV, then angles of incidence could be reduced from 45° to 41°, which is getting very close to the minimum angle of incidence of 39,5° of BaK4 for total internal reflection.
Any anti-reflection coating would reduce the critical angle so could cause vignetting just like BK7 prisms in fast focal ratio Porro binoculars.
So could we conclude that Schmidt-Pechan prisms are a dirty compromise between on-axis transmission and vignetting at the field edge?

John
 
I'm happy with new, modern dielectric coatings. To me the older silvered coatings were just as good - when new. The dielectic coatings have better durability. That's what I understood to be the primary advantage of dielectric.

FWIW, I'm an astronomer and I'm not a big fan of Baader. They have a strategy of hyping somewhat gimmicky stuff that often isn't any better. For astronomical refractors the gold standard for star diagonals is a top-end dielectic mirror from a US company Astro-Physics, that's what I use. I think Baader's stuff is only better in the hype department. They have glass prism and silvered mirror diagonals and, despite all the hype, I don't think they're anything new or better. Just IMO. (They also use viral marketing techniques like sending free gear to amateur internet reviewers to get glowing reviews.....as I said, they're best at hype)

For me the Zeiss SF 8x42's I have are a great testament to the effectiveness of new SP dielectric prisms. They're the cleanest and most scatter-free binocular optic I've used, including some AK's, and also the brightest of the 42's I've used. I believe my new Nikon EDG also use the same design, and they're clearly superior to the older Nikon HG's I used with silvered prism coatings. Although I'm sure the coatings are upgraded too.
 
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Dielectric coatings can have very high reflectivity, but generally only over a range of wavelengths and can perform badly outside this range…. Up to the designer. As things likely to be outside the range of colours you can see this isn’t really a downside in proactive. Even metal reflectivity drops in the blue/uv due to physics, hence why gold looks the colour it does.

Peter
 

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