The Swarovski EL's have been out for a while, and are being significantly overshadowed by the current Zeiss and Leica binoculars. When would anyone speculate that they (Swarovski) would bring out a new model series to stay competitive? I speculate that to keep market share up, they would have to bring out a new series by next year.
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EL Replacements? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Hogjaws
- Start date
It appears as if Leica and Swarovski will be stepping back in terms of marketing expenditure in the coming year or two. Swarovski have recently had their own 'trouble at top' and the optics side was the cause of this. Their marketing strategy includes high profile funding of worthy environmental causes as well as funding magazines and organisations, this could well be curtailed.
Leica have little budget to promote their optics these days, their policy of promoting via paying celebrities is likely to change.
Zeiss never seem to spend much on marketing and I don't see that changing even though they probably have the best bino at the moment.
Wine Man
Leica have little budget to promote their optics these days, their policy of promoting via paying celebrities is likely to change.
Zeiss never seem to spend much on marketing and I don't see that changing even though they probably have the best bino at the moment.
Wine Man
Wine Man said:
I wish Birdforum would serve as a neutral conduit between users and manufacturers, but I don't think that's going to fly.
http://www.zeiss.co.uk/C1256CD10044BB4C/ContentsWWWIntern/C84A2DED6368756580256FB700455B16
John
John Traynor said:
I don't see why not. I 've seen comments from representative of numerous major manufacturers. I recall a very generous offer from Minox regarding up grading of eye tubes on a Minox binocular. And I've seen comments from a Nikon rep. about the SE range.
I don't think the Nikon HG/LX range have been heavily marketed, but they have earnt a reputation as quality glass. I suspect that BF has helped their image and yet they are not a Zeiss product.
BTW Regarding your link, look at the top of the forum and you see the Zeiss logo. Didn't you notice it?
Leif
I'm surprised that someone with such a vocal opinion on optics has managed to miss the zeiss logos and banners on our site for over 2 years?John Traynor said:
The opinions in the forums are totally independant, and that's precisely what our sponsors wish... though hard to believe for those who love conspiracy theories.
As sensible observers can see for themselves, the integrity of the optics forums are intact and those that dare to disagree with your views on binoculars are not in the pay of our optics sponsor.
Regards,
Andy
SnapLeif said:I don't see why not. I 've seen comments from representative of numerous major manufacturers. I recall a very generous offer from Minox regarding up grading of eye tubes on a Minox binocular. And I've seen comments from a Nikon rep. about the SE range.
I don't think the Nikon HG/LX range have been heavily marketed, but they have earnt a reputation as quality glass. I suspect that BF has helped their image and yet they are not a Zeiss product.
BTW Regarding your link, look at the top of the forum and you see the Zeiss logo. Didn't you notice it?
Leif
And don't forget Swarovski and Leica representatives contributing.
When has BF ever shown any bias toward any optic manufacturer? If you had bothered to open your eyes you will see it is BF policy to let all comments good and bad about ALL optics have a fair crack on the forums, we delete nothing, comment on hardly anything and let all members voice there opinions.
ridiculous, paranoid, untrue, observations ............... sheesh
I simply stated the fact that Zeiss is the sole sponsor of Birdforum and, in so many words, that I didn't think other manufacturers would be enticed to actively participate in discussing and promoting their products. I think it's wonderful Zeiss sponsors the forum and that they have such a wonderful advertising venue. It was a smart business decision that I applaud.
I don’t see any other binocular manufacturers advertising their wares and, to my knowledge, there are no manufacturer's forums. Stephen Ingraham formally represents Zeiss and, again, I think that's a smart business decision for everyone involved. However, I'd love to see articles from Nikon, Leica, Swarovski, etc., but I don't think I will.
John
PS
Birdforum is the number one on-line resource for birders worldwide and the people who make it possible should be appreciated. Thanks for all your efforts!
I don’t see any other binocular manufacturers advertising their wares and, to my knowledge, there are no manufacturer's forums. Stephen Ingraham formally represents Zeiss and, again, I think that's a smart business decision for everyone involved. However, I'd love to see articles from Nikon, Leica, Swarovski, etc., but I don't think I will.
John
PS
Birdforum is the number one on-line resource for birders worldwide and the people who make it possible should be appreciated. Thanks for all your efforts!
Alexis Powell
Natural history enthusiast
EL replacements? Why?
In reference to post that started this thread...I can imagine Swarovski might someday release an updated or new or replacement EL, but if it happens in the near future I contend it would be for marketing reasons. The ELs may be significantly overshadowed in terms of expressed interest and posts on Birdforum, but I don't think they have been significantly overshadowed in terms of optical performance, build, or design by the more recent Leica and Zeiss offerings. Each of the current top binos has its strengths and weaknesses, and has the potential to better suit the particular tastes of a given user or the same user under/for different conditions/purposes. As for myself, when it comes to full-size binos for general purpose birding, the Swarovski 8.5x42 EL is my favorite model by far, and I suspect that the many buyers who are simply looking for a great birding bino, are not aware of when each of the top models was first released, and who do not read Birdforum (where they might get the mistaken feeling that the EL is "yesterday's news") will find the EL to their liking and may even prefer it as I do. I imagine, for these reasons, that Swarovki is still selling plenty of ELs. Incidentally, I say all this as the happy owner and user of an example of most of the current top offerings (e.g. I own Leica 8x42 Ultravid, Zeiss 8x32 FL, Nikon 10x42 HG/LX among others), so I don't feel I have a vested financial or emotional interest in proclaiming my love for the EL. Anyone who (who can still afford it and) doesn't consider the EL when choosing among the top models is making a mistake.
--AP
In reference to post that started this thread...I can imagine Swarovski might someday release an updated or new or replacement EL, but if it happens in the near future I contend it would be for marketing reasons. The ELs may be significantly overshadowed in terms of expressed interest and posts on Birdforum, but I don't think they have been significantly overshadowed in terms of optical performance, build, or design by the more recent Leica and Zeiss offerings. Each of the current top binos has its strengths and weaknesses, and has the potential to better suit the particular tastes of a given user or the same user under/for different conditions/purposes. As for myself, when it comes to full-size binos for general purpose birding, the Swarovski 8.5x42 EL is my favorite model by far, and I suspect that the many buyers who are simply looking for a great birding bino, are not aware of when each of the top models was first released, and who do not read Birdforum (where they might get the mistaken feeling that the EL is "yesterday's news") will find the EL to their liking and may even prefer it as I do. I imagine, for these reasons, that Swarovki is still selling plenty of ELs. Incidentally, I say all this as the happy owner and user of an example of most of the current top offerings (e.g. I own Leica 8x42 Ultravid, Zeiss 8x32 FL, Nikon 10x42 HG/LX among others), so I don't feel I have a vested financial or emotional interest in proclaiming my love for the EL. Anyone who (who can still afford it and) doesn't consider the EL when choosing among the top models is making a mistake.
--AP
question for Alexis P. FL EL ULTRAVID
Alexis,
I see that you own three top notch binos. My question is this: when you are in a rush to go on a birding trip in a wooded area, which bino do you grab first?
The second question is not so instinctive. Simply, which is your favorite?
Thanks,
By the way. I do not think Swar will introduce another model line anytime soon. Production costs have skyrocketed and their business plan is probably set on a five year plan at least, maybe even 10 year plan. If I was writing their budget, that is what I would do. They are depending on the EL line and have no choice but to see it through. The new SLC will balance to portfoilio risks of course also. That was a brilliant business move by the way. And I think that the newSLC was their plan B and new plan if EL sales fell short.
I would bet on a 10 year plan.
Alexis,
I see that you own three top notch binos. My question is this: when you are in a rush to go on a birding trip in a wooded area, which bino do you grab first?
The second question is not so instinctive. Simply, which is your favorite?
Thanks,
By the way. I do not think Swar will introduce another model line anytime soon. Production costs have skyrocketed and their business plan is probably set on a five year plan at least, maybe even 10 year plan. If I was writing their budget, that is what I would do. They are depending on the EL line and have no choice but to see it through. The new SLC will balance to portfoilio risks of course also. That was a brilliant business move by the way. And I think that the newSLC was their plan B and new plan if EL sales fell short.
I would bet on a 10 year plan.
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Alexis Powell
Natural history enthusiast
Randman--
My favorite binos, of those that I own, for fast-paced woodland birding, are the Zeiss 7x42 Classic. Of the choices you asked about, I would pick the Leica 8x42 Ultravid over the Swarovski 8.5x42 EL because I have the older slow focus-ratio version of the EL--in the woodland situation, the Ultravid's much faster focusing at close distances trumps my preference for the EL's optics. As for your second question, I don't have an overall favourite birding bino among the 30+ models that I have had opportunity to seriously compare over the years, but of those, the ones that I love the most over the most dimensions, based on countless hours of different sorts of birding at home and around the world, are the Zeiss 7x42 Classic, the Swarovski 8.5x42 EL, and the Leica 8x32 BA/BN Ultra. That's not to say that I might not like some of the newer offerings as much or more (such as the Zeiss 7x42 FL or the Leica 8x32 Ultravid, both of which I have tried in stores, and the latter with which I instantly fell in love), I just haven't had opportunity to really use/test them as I have many others.
--AP
My favorite binos, of those that I own, for fast-paced woodland birding, are the Zeiss 7x42 Classic. Of the choices you asked about, I would pick the Leica 8x42 Ultravid over the Swarovski 8.5x42 EL because I have the older slow focus-ratio version of the EL--in the woodland situation, the Ultravid's much faster focusing at close distances trumps my preference for the EL's optics. As for your second question, I don't have an overall favourite birding bino among the 30+ models that I have had opportunity to seriously compare over the years, but of those, the ones that I love the most over the most dimensions, based on countless hours of different sorts of birding at home and around the world, are the Zeiss 7x42 Classic, the Swarovski 8.5x42 EL, and the Leica 8x32 BA/BN Ultra. That's not to say that I might not like some of the newer offerings as much or more (such as the Zeiss 7x42 FL or the Leica 8x32 Ultravid, both of which I have tried in stores, and the latter with which I instantly fell in love), I just haven't had opportunity to really use/test them as I have many others.
--AP
Humboldt Jim
Well-known member
maybe the "next big thing" in binos wil be prescription astigmatism correction eyepieces. Then again.....
Our forums and their content remain the preserve of the members, not manufacturers (even if they are sponsors). All the optics manufacturers view our forums and the content is of huge importance for future designs.John Traynor said:
None of our sponsors (and Zeiss is just one) take any active part in forum content, the whole philosophy behind birdforum is independence. Birdforum's success is because of this independence from commercial influence and sponsors appreciate this. Influencing forum content would effectively 'kill the goose'. Our sponsors are content to be associated with us and we make our policy very clear to anyone enquiring about sponsorship (this does mean turning away potential revenue to run the site).
Zeiss activity on the site consists of the two logos and a banner ad, as well as supplying prizes for some competitions (can you begrudge that?)
Stephen Ingraham's article contributions are not relevant in this discussion as they are strictly general advise on optics and are not written to promote Zeiss products (and from the feedback we have received, they are seen as such and heartily applauded for being informative, yet impartial).
I know it's a difficult thing to accept if you come from certain societies but there are a few places left where independence manages to keep on top of commercialism, Birdforum is one such place.
Regards,
Andy
pduxon
Quacked up Member
John Traynor said:
depends on how you want to spend your advertising budget surely.
I'm puzzled as to why you think Zeiss' Sponsorship of BF could lead to bias. It would not be in Zeiss or BFs interest surely since the word would quickly get around. The only bias I've noted is the odd member with an axe to grind.
Leica sponsor Alula and that doesn't stop Kimmo writing very well balanced reviews now does it?
