English names for Clapper/King Rail split (1 Viewer)

[MichaelRetter]

Is it known where the King Rails of the western Gulf Coast (e.g., in Veracruz) fit in?[/B]

For what it's worth, Howell & Webb lists these birds as R. elegans elegans.

 

[Kirk Roth]

I might put in a pitch for "Highland Rail" for tenuirostris. As mentioned before, this name is already in use by the Birdlife International and Sibley & Monroe taxonomic systems. Additionally, I feel this name is far more descriptive of the taxon than other proposals. "Mexican" describes the range, but not as well as "Highland," which at least separates it from the dozen or so other species of rail in the country. "Aztec" seems to be a name chosen for "fun-factor," rather than any sort of connection to the Aztec people or civilization. Indeed, most of the rail's range occurs north and west of the Aztec empire at its height, which also encompassed the southern range of rails in the elegans group. I think that anything resembling "Mexican King Rail" or "Highland King Rail" should be avoided so as not to imply a relationship that does not taxonomically exist. "Highland Clapper" etc. would be preferred to those.

For the obsoletus group, it is worth pointing out that "light-footed" refers not to the color of the feet, but the fleet-footedness of it (levipes has the same root as "levitation."), which could be a good descriptor for any of these rails if not for the scientific name of a single subspecies. I don't see why this is the subspecies that "wins" the common name contest over any of the others. My personal preference for obsoletus is "California Clapper Rail" as all subspecies occur in California or Baja California. Inserting "Clapper" eliminates complaints of it not being the only rail in California, and introduces complaints of long names. You just can't win. I'm not usually a supporter of patronyms, as I find them uninformative and I might add immodest. However, why would Ridgway be chosen over Belding, for example, who is at least "immortalized" in the scientific name of one of the subspecies? Of all these, I view "California" as the least bad.

"Saltmarsh" or even "Saltmarsh Clapper" for crepitans seems problematic given that obsoletus is also a saltmarsh rail. I prefer "Northern Clapper Rail," which is the commonly used name of the now nominate subspecies, and also a good descriptor compared to the other groups (unless we decide upon the "King Clapper Rail!).

At risk of angering the Winter Wren folks, I don't see a problem with "King Rail" for elegans and feel that a name change here would actually cause more confusion among English-speaking audiences, not less. If the name must be changed, something like "King Clapper" or "Elegant Clapper" or "Inland Clapper" could be considered - because after all the splitting, these five are still one big superspecies.

I feel that "Mangrove" or "Mangrove Clapper Rail" are not bad names for longirostris, despite the minimal chance of confusion with the Florida Keys subspecies of crepitans in some sources. "Thick-billed Clapper Rail" is not bad either, and takes advantage of one of the few good morphological separators in this whole complex. However, "Mangrove" seems to have overwhelming momentum by now.

My proposal to the AOU to lump all the birds under "Mud Hen" seems to have gotten lost in the mail...

 

[MichaelRetter]

Light-footed Rail is a rather poor name in my opinion. Are the feet really that pale compared to other taxa? In my experience, the feet and legs are usually covered in mud! Either that, or the bird is swimming.

I could, of course, be wrong, but I always interpreted the "light-footed" in Light-footed Clapper Rail to mean this.

 

[l_raty]

I could, of course, be wrong, but I always interpreted the "light-footed" in Light-footed Clapper Rail to mean this.

levis = light in weight, not heavy; pes = foot.

 

[Richard Klim]

Is it known where the King Rails of the western Gulf Coast (e.g., in Veracruz) fit in?
For what it's worth, Howell & Webb lists these birds as R. elegans elegans.

Taylor & van Perlo 1998 (Rails) concurs. But not sampled by Maley & Brumfield 2013 (see Fig 1).

There are also mangrove-resident Clapper Rails on the Yucatán peninsula (saturatus). I hope the study this is based on takes into account those birds, as well.

R crepitans saturatus (Gulf coast) was sampled, but not R c pallidus (Yucatán), nor R c grossi/belizensis.

 

[mb1848]

R. levipes, Bangs 1899:
http://books.google.com/books?id=1q4xAQAAMAAJ&dq=Rallus+levipes+Bangs+1899&source=gbs_navlinks_s . Vol I p. 45.
He says tarsus and foot smaller than in either obsoletus or beldingi. Yo Oscar!

 

[AlexC]

I'm sure avoiding clutter in new names is a priority, but would Saltmarsh Clapper Rail and California Clapper Rail really be that bad? Best of both worlds (not losing the old name, no confusion with one population maintaining it).

Yeah I was a big fan of the Saltmarsh Sharp-tailed Sparrow and Nelson's Sharp-tailed Sparrow names before they lost a few pounds. Call me crazy.

 

[MichaelRetter]

Thank you, Richard. Not sampling (geographically) intermediate populations would make me reluctant to split anything in this complex until more thorough sample set is analyzed. There's also no sampling of the Costa Rican population, or the Honduran one that Dan mentions.

 

[Kratter]

Thanks for all the comments. Keep 'em coming.
Calling what were once taxa in R. longirsotris (sensu lato)," xxx Clapper-Rail" or "xxx Clapper Rail", would indicate that these are each others' closest relatives. This is not the case, as elegans and tenuirostris rails are embedded in this clade. We could call each of them xxxx Clapper-Rail, such as King Clapper-Rail, Aztec Clapper-Rail, California Clapper-Rail....
Andy

 

[Kirk Roth]

Thanks for all the comments. Keep 'em coming.
Calling what were once taxa in R. longirsotris (sensu lato)," xxx Clapper-Rail" or "xxx Clapper Rail", would indicate that these are each others' closest relatives. This is not the case, as elegans and tenuirostris rails are embedded in this clade. We could call each of them xxxx Clapper-Rail, such as King Clapper-Rail, Aztec Clapper-Rail, California Clapper-Rail....
Andy

Insert can of worms here.

But I thought that "rule" was only applied with the hyphenated names? And not, for example, Great Blue and Little Blue Herons?

 

[Henicorhina]

levis = light in weight, not heavy; pes = foot.

Thanks for the correction on this. Given this, it seems to me that Light-footed Rail is a good option for levipes.

Oscar Johnson

 

[Scelorchilus]

I don't think any of the forms should retain the old "Clapper Rail" name, but I don't see why the use of Clapper Rail could not remain in one of the other taxa names. In particular, there are oodles of reports that deal with Light-footed Clapper Rail, and California Clapper Rail as well as Yuma Clapper Rail, as these are listed forms. None of these names is very good, but if you have to pick one, California Clapper Rail is the best one as an umbrella for the group. They are all found in parts of California correct? But the bare bones, California Rail just sounds odd, wrong, and confusing. Why not keep California Clapper Rail for that species? At least it is already used a lot out here in the West and everyone is not confused by it. I like Aztec Rail, King stays, Saltmarsh Rail is ok, Eastern or Atlantic Clapper Rail is ok too. Mangrove sounds good to me. My main issue is with the bare California Rail, that does not work all that well. Those looking for exact names lacking in inconsistencies, well, who cares? These are names, they are not meant to be exact descriptors of the range, ecology or biology of the birds. I have no problem with Red-bellied Woodpecker and Ring-necked Duck, in fact it gives me something to talk about and is a "teachable moment" from my perspective. I would never change Connecticut Warbler, just for the sake of being accurate - the world keeps on spinning.

 

[cwbirder]

Andy-Thank you for asking the opinion of this forum.

Here are my comments, for what they are worth:

Overall, I don’t advocate keeping the same name for any of the taxa involved, especially not for Clapper Rail. I dislike maintaining old names after a split has occurred, and, as others have pointed out, some are still annoyed at the Winter/Pacific Wrens.

Rallus elegans
There was not originally another name suggested for this one, but I like Elegant Rail. It has been mentioned both in this thread and previously, and I think it works well. Also, although I don’t advocate for keeping the old names for any of them, if one must be kept, then I would tolerate maintaining King Rail for this one.

Rallus tenuirostris
The name I like best for this one is Highland. I think it is descriptive and a more effective name than the other two options. Of the two that were originally mentioned though, I would lean towards Aztec.

Rallus crepitans
I don’t think it is wise to maintain Clapper Rail without any modification for any of the resulting species. Therefore, I vote for Saltmarsh Rail. It fits the habitat well and is descriptive enough. If Clapper Rail must be kept, I would advocate for something like Eastern Clapper Rail. I know some people bemoan longer and longer names, but it has worked well for the Scrub-Jays, and I don’t think sticking an Eastern onto Clapper Rail would be an issue. Really though, I would advocate dropping Clapper altogether.

Rallus obsoletus
For this one, I prefer California Rail as has been mentioned by several others. Like Mysticete, I have always thought of that group as the California Clapper Rail group. I also don't take issue with the geographic range concerns mentioned by others. As Richard pointed out, there are plenty of birds that stray outside of our geographic boundaries. I also tend to think of the California floristic province from the plant perspective, which extends out of the US state of California both to the north and into Baja to the south. Because of this and the birds Richard mentioned, I think it is fine to have it called California Rail. Otherwise, neither of the proposed names strikes me as great. While (as has been pointed out) Light-footed refers to its fleetness of foot, I think that name would lead to confusion among new birders, who would probably not know the backstory and be looking for more coloration differences.

Rallus longirostris
I like Mangrove Rail for this one. It works well and is apparently descriptive of the preferred habitat of this taxon. Don’t keep Clapper.

It will be interesting to keep following this thread.

 

[Chris Sharpe]

> Rallus longirostris Boddaert. (South America) English name options: *Mangrove Rail.

The name is apt and the only niggle might be the fact that R. wetmorei (which I don't think has been properly analysed yet) inhabits the same mangroves as R. l. phelpsi. Of course, wetmorei's range is tiny so there is little room for confusion (in the names at least!).

 

[Kirk Roth]

Rallus crepitans
I don’t think it is wise to maintain Clapper Rail without any modification for any of the resulting species. Therefore, I vote for Saltmarsh Rail. It fits the habitat well and is descriptive enough. If Clapper Rail must be kept, I would advocate for something like Eastern Clapper Rail. I know some people bemoan longer and longer names, but it has worked well for the Scrub-Jays, and I don’t think sticking an Eastern onto Clapper Rail would be an issue. Really though, I would advocate dropping Clapper altogether.

This reminds me of a couple points that I maybe should have mentioned in my first post.

- "Eastern" or "Atlantic" Clapper Rail are a bit "North America-centric" given that the Mangrove Rails range farther east. "Northern Clapper" seems more accurate as a descriptor of range.

- One reason that I supported "Winter Wren" for T. hiemalis was that the common name "Winter Wren" really originally applied to those wrens that appeared to descend in the eastern North American woods in the winter. Even the name "hiemalis," meaning winter, makes it clear which taxa was the "real" winter wren, and you could argue that this name was never really descriptive of the Pacific or Eurasian taxa. A clapper rail is a different situation, because (to my knowledge) all of these taxa "clap" prominently. In other words, "clapper" is an accurate description of all taxa, so no one ( crepitans or any other) has the monopoly on this descriptor. This is my long way of saying I don't like simply "Clapper Rail" for any taxa.

- I think "Saltmarsh Rail" is a good name for Rallus obsoletus. 3

 

[njlarsen]

For reasons already stated by others, I really dislike maintaining an unmodified Clapper Rail for any of these five populations. Saltmarsh Rail or Northern Clapper Rail sounds like good alternatives, and even Eastern Clapper Rail would work for me (maybe preferred in the short term if future work is likely to split off the Caribbean forms).

Niels

 

[Kratter]

Van Remsen, member opf the NACC and SACC, asked me to post his thoughts:

Enthusiasm for changing English names is typically inversely proportional to the geographic distance from those lobbying for the change to the taxon in question (directly analogous to the NIMBY principle).

Although I agree that it is preferable that daughter species be christened with new names to prevent confusion, this should not be codified as "law" because of asymmetry in usage and range. For example, strict adherence to that policy would have produced "Cuban Red-winged Blackbird" (instead of Red-shouldered Blackbird) and "Common Red-winged Blackbird" for the species that occupies 99+% of the range of this lineage, much to the horror of anyone with any sense of English bird names.

Notice that in this case, the "outrage" is minimal for retaining "King Rail" for the taxon that occupies by far the greatest range and "literature space" . I know of only one minor paper on tenuirostris, and Google Scholar has only 20 hits for this taxon vs. 1,120 for "R. elegans" s.l.). In the case of R. longirostris (s.l.), the ratio of geographic range sizes is not highly asymmetrical -- the Mangrove Rail's range actually might be larger and certainly includes far more countries. However, the "literature space" ratio is even more highly skewed (3 vs. 2,380) than in the King Rail example, and to the best of my knowledge, not one paper has ever been published on the species. In other words, the Mangrove Rail is a fairly obscure bird relative to Clapper Rail (s.s.).

The comments that I see in favor of "Saltmarsh Rail" emphasize the confusion it would cause by retaining Clapper for the North American daughter. Seriously? Would it really be that difficult to grasp? Those who actually care about this sort of esoteria would pick this up in a flash.

In terms of confusion, I suggest that true confusion would be substantially greater if the English name is changed for the North American bird that has remained stable for more than a century, including thousands of mentions in technical and popular literature. The North American bird is also a game bird and a species of conservation concern, so its representation in technical and popular literature is augmented. Many birders and ornithologists aren't even aware that "Clapper Rail" distribution extends to the tropics. Under-appreciated is that standardized NACC English names have a clientele that extends far beyond professional ornithologists and taxonomy-savvy amateurs. That audience dislikes ANY change at all and is often baffled by the seemingly whimsical (in their view) name changes. Changing Clapper Rail to Saltmarsh Rail would be highly disruptive and counter-productive: one of THE main considerations for maintaining a standardized list of names is stability, and changes should be avoided unless truly misleading. Sometimes I worry that discussions of English names take into account only the tiny number of people who use English bird names who also understand the nuances of taxonomy.

At the purely subjective level, I might feel differently if Clapper Rail was a bad or insipid name. Although the same description could be applied to other members of the complex, it is definitely an above-average name in colorfully describing the voice of the species, albeit not uniquely.

J.V. Remsen

 

[Richard Klim]

Van Remsen, member of the NACC and SACC, asked me to post his thoughts...

I agree with Van 100%.

Long-standing vernacular names are surely of some cultural importance, with a rich heritage in literature. The name Clapper Rail has endured in all seven editions of the AOU Check-list, from 1886 to date, despite various splits and lumps along the way. I'm dismayed by suggestions that it should now be consigned to history just to avoid any potential temporary confusion amongst novice birders. I can understand such concerns for complexes involving taxa that are parapatric (or even sympatric in the non-breeding season). But in the case of Rallus crepitans/obsoletus/longirostris, the taxa are allopatric and serious confusion is extremely unlikely – eg, it would be truly exceptional for R crepitans to be reported within the range of R obsoletus or vice versa.

 

[Snapdragyn]

Van Remsen, member opf the NACC and SACC, asked me to post his thoughts:

Enthusiasm for changing English names is typically inversely proportional to the geographic distance from those lobbying for the change to the taxon in question (directly analogous to the NIMBY principle).

Although I agree that it is preferable that daughter species be christened with new names to prevent confusion, this should not be codified as "law" because of asymmetry in usage and range. For example, strict adherence to that policy would have produced "Cuban Red-winged Blackbird" (instead of Red-shouldered Blackbird) and "Common Red-winged Blackbird" for the species that occupies 99+% of the range of this lineage, much to the horror of anyone with any sense of English bird names.

Notice that in this case, the "outrage" is minimal for retaining "King Rail" for the taxon that occupies by far the greatest range and "literature space" . I know of only one minor paper on tenuirostris, and Google Scholar has only 20 hits for this taxon vs. 1,120 for "R. elegans" s.l.). In the case of R. longirostris (s.l.), the ratio of geographic range sizes is not highly asymmetrical -- the Mangrove Rail's range actually might be larger and certainly includes far more countries. However, the "literature space" ratio is even more highly skewed (3 vs. 2,380) than in the King Rail example, and to the best of my knowledge, not one paper has ever been published on the species. In other words, the Mangrove Rail is a fairly obscure bird relative to Clapper Rail (s.s.).

The comments that I see in favor of "Saltmarsh Rail" emphasize the confusion it would cause by retaining Clapper for the North American daughter. Seriously? Would it really be that difficult to grasp? Those who actually care about this sort of esoteria would pick this up in a flash.

In terms of confusion, I suggest that true confusion would be substantially greater if the English name is changed for the North American bird that has remained stable for more than a century, including thousands of mentions in technical and popular literature. The North American bird is also a game bird and a species of conservation concern, so its representation in technical and popular literature is augmented. Many birders and ornithologists aren't even aware that "Clapper Rail" distribution extends to the tropics. Under-appreciated is that standardized NACC English names have a clientele that extends far beyond professional ornithologists and taxonomy-savvy amateurs. That audience dislikes ANY change at all and is often baffled by the seemingly whimsical (in their view) name changes. Changing Clapper Rail to Saltmarsh Rail would be highly disruptive and counter-productive: one of THE main considerations for maintaining a standardized list of names is stability, and changes should be avoided unless truly misleading. Sometimes I worry that discussions of English names take into account only the tiny number of people who use English bird names who also understand the nuances of taxonomy.

At the purely subjective level, I might feel differently if Clapper Rail was a bad or insipid name. Although the same description could be applied to other members of the complex, it is definitely an above-average name in colorfully describing the voice of the species, albeit not uniquely.

J.V. Remsen

Well, my distance is not inversely proportional to the range - I live in the U.S., currently in San Francisco. 'California Rail' would be a change from anything currently used for the taxon which occurs about 3-4 miles from where I type this; I support that change. I began birding in Texas, where I saw my first Clapper Rail (s.l.) on Galveston Island during a Field Ornithology trip in college; I support that change. I saw my first King Rail in Florida when I was working as a field assistant one summer to a grad student monitoring heron & egret nesting success around Lake Okeechobee; although I failed to mention it in my earlier post, I support that change (I'd frankly forgotten that the Mexican taxon was currently included in King Rail; it has historically bounced back & forth a bit, I believe?).

It may well be true that the only ones who favor English name changes are those aware of the nuances of taxonomy. My question, then, would be why the... let's just go with 'heck'... were we asked in the first place? >/

Correlated note: Do we have anyone here connected to eBird who can provide actual data as to the number of erroneous 'Winter Wren' sightings still being submitted outside of the proper range for that species post-split?

 

[MichaelRetter]

Well, my distance is not inversely proportional to the range - I live in the U.S., currently in San Francisco. 'California Rail' would be a change from anything currently used for the taxon which occurs about 3-4 miles from where I type this; I support that change.

Likewise, I live within the range of King Rail and would prefer to see it called something different when and if the Mexican highland birds are split. Hooray for Elegant Rail! At least in this example, if "King Rail" is retained, Rallus elegans will still be King Rail. As it stands now, splitting Clapper Rail and retaining the common name for the northernmost population would change the scientific name of Clapper Rail from R. longristris (which would then be called something else in English) to R. crepitans. "What does Clapper Rail mean? What does R. longirostris mean? What do you mean R. longirosris isn't Clapper Rail?" While I'm not hot on either, retaining King Rail for R. elegans is unequivocally less confusing that calling R. crepitans Clapper Rail.