Everglades National Park, Florida today - Crow (3 Viewers)

[Aladdin]

Dear Members and bird watchers!

I am in North America to look for birds. I bought National Geographic Field Guide to the Birds of North America, a great book.

They list two crows for Florida, American and fish Crow, and the look the same. Different size. Is it possible to say what kind of crow it is I have attached to the post?

The sound recording is the crow in picture #1

Kind regards and happy birding

Aladdin

 

[lockbreeze926]

The sound recording is a Fish Crow.

 

[nartreb]

Is it possible to say what kind of crow it is I have attached to the post?

Not from photos. Even by voice is difficult, as both species can make a lot of different sounds. A typical American crow sound consists of long, raspy caws, and a Fish crow typically emits shorter, more nasal, higher-pitched uhs, but they can both vary a lot.

 

[lgonz1008]

In Miami-Dade county, the rule of thumb is American Crow is in the Everglades and surrounding areas, while Fish Crow is in the urban areas.

Add to this, the American Crows found within the park have different vocalization than those seen anywhere else in its range (including Central Florida).

The recording also matches for what the locals always count as American Crow, including the eBird reviewers, so I would advise to treat it as American.

If you want to see Fish Crow, pretty much any crow you saw in urban Miami is a Fish Crow.

The continental field guides are great for bird ID but the range maps leave a lot to be desired in a local level, it's to the point that most counties in South Florida only see/report American Crow in the inland areas as the species seems to be have been pushed out of the urban regions by the Fish Crows.

 

[raymie]

In Miami-Dade county, the rule of thumb is American Crow is in the Everglades and surrounding areas, while Fish Crow is in the urban areas.

Add to this, the American Crows found within the park have different vocalization than those seen anywhere else in its range (including Central Florida).

The recording also matches for what the locals always count as American Crow, including the eBird reviewers, so I would advise to treat it as American.

If you want to see Fish Crow, pretty much any crow you saw in urban Miami is a Fish Crow.

The continental field guides are great for bird ID but the range maps leave a lot to be desired in a local level, it's to the point that most counties in South Florida only see/report American Crow in the inland areas as the species seems to be have been pushed out of the urban regions by the Fish Crows.

Interesting about the vocalizations being different. Is it possible it's a different species?

 

[lgonz1008]

Interesting about the vocalizations being different. Is it possible it's a different species?

Not a different species by any means, the (former) Northwestern Crow was more unique than the Everglades population, however, the calls are a bit of a whiplash if you are used to crows elsewhere in North America.

The best way to describe it is a bubbly call, they still have the harsh caws, but when you sit down and just wait for them to come, you'll see how different they vocalize with each other.

This audio clip shows off a bit of what they can do around the beginning, the 15 and 22 second mark: ML469524151 American Crow Macaulay Library

 

[01101001]

Interesting indeed--Clements v2022 has ssp. C. b. pascuus with its range in 'Peninsular Florida', so I assume that--with more research--there is still a possibility of recognising a further subspecies in the south of this area?

 

[Aladdin]

Thank you all!

The recording is made with the bird on picture #xxx at the Anhinga Trail.​

The picture #xxxx is taken at the eBird hotspot: Everglades NP--Paurotis Pond and I played the clip and the bird responded immediately and came to land very close to investigate.​

Kind Regards and happy birding

Aladdin

 

[lgonz1008]

Thank you all!

The recording is made with the bird on picture #xxx at the Anhinga Trail.​

The picture #xxxx is taken at the eBird hotspot: Everglades NP--Paurotis Pond and I played the clip and the bird responded immediately and came to land very close to investigate.​

Kind Regards and happy birding

Aladdin

Word of advice, never play recording within the US national parks, if a ranger sees you, you can be fined for disrupting the behavior of the birdlife (official stance; the unofficial stance someone tried to sue the parks in the past for their bad action in harassing and getting attacked by a Barred Owl, this actually happened in the Everglades).

 

[Andy Hurley]

I don't think its ever a good idea to use playback in national parks, or other reserves, protected areas that have a lot of foot traffic as it can cause stress and nest failures if over used. I would suggest using it sparingly in other out of the way locations if at all. The idea is to observe with as little disruption as possible. I've seen non official guides in several countries that really are only ever interested in showing their customers what they want, incuding using small boats with powerful outboard motors to rush in and force birds to take off, jeeps that compete to get the closest the can to a big cat. Asia is the worst I've experienced. I have had to ask official guides stop doing that and think of the wild life more than once. It works, but probably just till the next customer says he/she/they simply must see xyz and the hunt begins again...

Some private lodges have a 2 vehicle rule, which is excellent. Each have a slot to see whatever has been spotted and after their allotted time is up they move away, but in Sri Lanka I saw 18 jeeps surrounding a leopard, no exit route possible and the guides like to grab their guest's cameras to get the photo for them... Some don't even see the poor animal, but they have a photo and at the end of the day that is enough for most. Leopard tick, where is the cute baby elephant. Oh it's sooo funny when it starts trumpeting for it's mother, but can't find her because of the hunting behaviour of the humans that "have to see" without any thought to the animal's welfare, or their own, when mother and the herd come to the rescue...

 

[Andy Hurley]

In Miami-Dade county, the rule of thumb is American Crow is in the Everglades and surrounding areas, while Fish Crow is in the urban areas.

Add to this, the American Crows found within the park have different vocalization than those seen anywhere else in its range (including Central Florida).

The recording also matches for what the locals always count as American Crow, including the eBird reviewers, so I would advise to treat it as American.

If you want to see Fish Crow, pretty much any crow you saw in urban Miami is a Fish Crow.

The continental field guides are great for bird ID but the range maps leave a lot to be desired in a local level, it's to the point that most counties in South Florida only see/report American Crow in the inland areas as the species seems to be have been pushed out of the urban regions by the Fish Crows.

This is the sort of local knowledge that makes this forum exceptional. Thanks very much Ingonz!

 

[Aladdin]

Word of advice, never play recording within the US national parks, if a ranger sees you, you can be fined for disrupting the behavior of the birdlife (official stance; the unofficial stance someone tried to sue the parks in the past for their bad action in harassing and getting attacked by a Barred Owl, this actually happened in the Everglades).

Hello Igonz1008!

Cheers!

Yes, I know, one girl poured the last water in her water bottle (Only the water) in to the sea and the Rangers gave her a good scolding.

I discussed the Fish/ American crow with some of the staff after your post. They cannot see the difference and they pretty much agreed on your information. In the Everglades it is almost sure to be an American Crow and the Fish Crow in the populated areas.

I have a couple of more days in the fantastic Everglades before going to Rocky Mountains. I have seen the Great Egret, Night Heron, Common Myna and Common Starling + a few House Sparrows outside my hotel room. Otherwise every bird I see is a new bird for me so it is very fun. And I have a lot of help ID the birds.

Thanks again!
Aladdin

 

[Aladdin]

I don't think its ever a good idea to use playback in national parks, or other reserves, protected areas that have a lot of foot traffic as it can cause stress and nest failures if over used. I would suggest using it sparingly in other out of the way locations if at all. The idea is to observe with as little disruption as possible. I've seen non official guides in several countries that really are only ever interested in showing their customers what they want, incuding using small boats with powerful outboard motors to rush in and force birds to take off, jeeps that compete to get the closest the can to a big cat. Asia is the worst I've experienced. I have had to ask official guides stop doing that and think of the wild life more than once. It works, but probably just till the next customer says he/she/they simply must see xyz and the hunt begins again...

Some private lodges have a 2 vehicle rule, which is excellent. Each have a slot to see whatever has been spotted and after their allotted time is up they move away, but in Sri Lanka I saw 18 jeeps surrounding a leopard, no exit route possible and the guides like to grab their guest's cameras to get the photo for them... Some don't even see the poor animal, but they have a photo and at the end of the day that is enough for most. Leopard tick, where is the cute baby elephant. Oh it's sooo funny when it starts trumpeting for it's mother, but can't find her because of the hunting behaviour of the humans that "have to see" without any thought to the animal's welfare, or their own, when mother and the herd come to the rescue...

Cheers!

Yes, Sri Lanka is terrible, no limits on how many jeeps are allowed in to the parks. India have limits but it turns in to High Chaparal when there is a tiger, I even saw I child falling out of a jeep when everyone wanted to see the tiger.

I told my driver to leave, I always pay extra to have my own jeep.

Africa is the best, and almost the whole country of Botswana is a national park and you are not even allowed to tough a twig

Cheers!
Aladdin

 

[lgonz1008]

Hello Igonz1008!

Cheers!

Yes, I know, one girl poured the last water in her water bottle (Only the water) in to the sea and the Rangers gave her a good scolding.

I discussed the Fish/ American crow with some of the staff after your post. They cannot see the difference and they pretty much agreed on your information. In the Everglades it is almost sure to be an American Crow and the Fish Crow in the populated areas.

I have a couple of more days in the fantastic Everglades before going to Rocky Mountains. I have seen the Great Egret, Night Heron, Common Myna and Common Starling + a few House Sparrows outside my hotel room. Otherwise every bird I see is a new bird for me so it is very fun. And I have a lot of help ID the birds.

Thanks again!
Aladdin

If you need any ID help, feel free to reach out, I've been lucky enough to see almost every bird species in South Florida, so I can help you with most IDs for the area.

 

[Andy Hurley]

The Everglades are fantastic, but they were slowly drying out due to water sources being over used, eg industry, swiming pools watering golf courses etc. Is it still the same, or have they found some resolution? May be the could start a pumping project at point just before the rivers enter the sea and divert some of the river water back upstream to just before the entrance of the glades, but there are probably so many problems involved with doing this. You would need ecologists, biologists and engineers involved and it would effect the coastal biome that Floridians are very proud of too, so mebbies not.

 

[lgonz1008]

The Everglades are fantastic, but they were slowly drying out due to water sources being over used, eg industry, swiming pools watering golf courses etc. Is it still the same, or have they found some resolution? May be the could start a pumping project at point just before the rivers enter the sea and divert some of the river water back upstream to just before the entrance of the glades, but there are probably so many problems involved with doing this. You would need ecologists, biologists and engineers involved and it would effect the coastal biome that Floridians are very proud of too, so mebbies not.

The issue is still there, we are having very dry seasons (although these are great news for birders since you get to see hundreds of waders at eye level and less than a couple of meters from you, including Roseate Spoonbills and Wood Storks).

However, the restoration project fund were finally approved early this year (around $3.5 billion USD for the next four years), so hopefully the water flow will return within the next few decades before it's too late. Just came back from guiding a couple around the park and it was hard to explain how some sites that remain flooded year round had the water level 1 or 2 feet lower than on average.

 

[Aladdin]

If you need any ID help, feel free to reach out, I've been lucky enough to see almost every bird species in South Florida, so I can help you with most IDs for the area.

Cheers!

Highly appreciated!

I have managed to ID most birds, but I struggle, well, I have given up trying to ID the bird in picture #1 A bird I spotted at Anhinga Trail o the first day. Partly covered by twigs

Picture #2, and I have ID this as a first winter laughing gull

I just stepped inside my hotel room after a day with a private bird photo from a boat his morning. There were some shore birds and I had expected my guide to be able to give the ID, but I think he is using the name.

Picture #3 and I have ID the bird as a Semipalmated Plover, thirs I thought Wilson's Plover, but the bill is not right for that ID

Picture #4 and I have ID the bird as a Sandeling (EVEN THOUGH IT SHOULD NO BE IN FLORIDA AS PER MY BOOK) Reason for my ID is the black tail feathers and the strip going down forward of the wing creating a small white triangle. This is also the feature that make me able to ID a common Sandpiper.

Picture #5 and I have ID this bird as a Golden Plover moulting in to breeding uniform. This because of the ear pattern and the bill. But no clue if it is a Pacific, but most likely an American as this is the only one listed for Florida

I will make a quick dash in to the Everglades tomorrow morning at 6 o'clock and I will move to Airport Hotel in Miami tomorrow and I will fly to the Rocky Mountains for a birding tour on the 4 of April. Will be 5 days and I have a Guide so I hope I will obtain some impressive checklists for eBird.

They usually ask me why I have so few birds on my checklsits, well, these are the birds I can ID. When I have a Guide they are way more impressive.

Cheers!
Aladdin

 

[lgonz1008]

View attachment 1502135View attachment 1502136View attachment 1502138View attachment 1502139View attachment 1502140View attachment 1502141

1. Palm Warbler
2. Laughing Gull
3. Semipalmated Plover
4. Sanderling (they are here year round, but more common during the migration and winter months)
5. Black-bellied (Gray) Plover (sadly not a rare Golden Plover, those are rare migrants and during fall migration)
6. Spotted Eagle Ray

 

[Aladdin]

1. Palm Warbler
2. Laughing Gull
3. Semipalmated Plover
4. Sanderling (they are here year round, but more common during the migration and winter months)
5. Black-bellied (Gray) Plover (sadly not a rare Golden Plover, those are rare migrants and during fall migration)
6. Spotted Eagle Ray

Thank you very much!

Sanderlig, yes you are right, winter / year around is blue in my National Geographic Field Guide to the Birds of North America. How stupid do I feel now? The whole coast of USA i blue and I thought it was the border.

But it is strange, American Oystercatcher, also blue around the coast of USA. And now I discovered that my American Ostercatcher from this morning generated an Rare Bird Alert. This I don't understand.

KInd Regards
Aladdin

 

[lgonz1008]

Thank you very much!

Sanderlig, yes you are right, winter / year around is blue in my National Geographic Field Guide to the Birds of North America. How stupid do I feel now? The whole coast of USA i blue and I thought it was the border.

But it is strange, American Oystercatcher, also blue around the coast of USA. And now I discovered that my American Ostercatcher from this morning generated an Rare Bird Alert. This I don't understand.

KInd Regards
Aladdin

They are widespread but locally uncommon, hence the filter is set to 0, but with the great pictures you got, the sighting is 100% approved.