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great skua killed an adult ganet (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter scuba0095
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Himalaya i tried to send you a msg but your pvt box is too full, common buzzards are a threat to all large falcons and kill many falconry birds each year. They cause the highest mortality rate. We do not have them here. They are just smaller versions of our huge red tails. From what i was told though common buzzards stay out of bonxies way when feed on a carcass. They try to avoid ravens also.
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I think any smallers birds can drive away much larger birds when it comes to defending their nests. I dont think it is a question of dare but Ravens nest in a location which any Gull would have difficulty accessing, although some do nest on cliffs but probably much more open ledges.
On the ground a single GBB Gull can probably hold off at least a few Ravens from a meal, even Buzzards can dislodge Ravens ......maybe not always though.
On the ground a single GBB Gull can probably hold off at least a few Ravens from a meal, even Buzzards can dislodge Ravens ......maybe not always though.
Falcons are not ground fighting birds. The way they hunt is different to Hawks. Goshawks on the other hand fight on the ground and have been known to chase after prey on the ground even as large as Hares. They fight off Buzzards on the ground.
How do Skuas interact with Ravens, Glaucous Gulls and Snowy Owls?
How do Skuas interact with Ravens, Glaucous Gulls and Snowy Owls?
in the air ravens are dominant over buzzards and all gulls
no smaller birds are not always success because terns are not able to stop large GBB gulls or glaucous gulls from raiding their colony no matter how much they attack the gulls
where did you hear goshawks fighting off buzzards? goshawks are accepters they have weaker feet than buteos, so they can't ground fight with them or lock with them they will be killed very quick
The grip of a buteo is very powerful much stronger than a goshawk, buteos are always killing large constricting snakes
great skua pretty much dominants every bird in the air once in a while a gbb gull will be able to fight one off, thats about it, pom skuas and long tail jags give snowy owls hell.
no smaller birds are not always success because terns are not able to stop large GBB gulls or glaucous gulls from raiding their colony no matter how much they attack the gulls
where did you hear goshawks fighting off buzzards? goshawks are accepters they have weaker feet than buteos, so they can't ground fight with them or lock with them they will be killed very quick
The grip of a buteo is very powerful much stronger than a goshawk, buteos are always killing large constricting snakes
great skua pretty much dominants every bird in the air once in a while a gbb gull will be able to fight one off, thats about it, pom skuas and long tail jags give snowy owls hell.
Sangahyando
Well-known member
Er, what? Got a source to back that up? Pretty much all of the literature I've read on the subject suggests that Goshawks have very powerful feet, hence their ability to kill large prey such as hares or gulls.
martin kitching
Obsessed seawatcher
martin kitching
Obsessed seawatcher
Or a source for this?
There's anecdotal evidence from falconers that Gyr have a level flight speed in excess of 100mph...
cheers
martin
There's anecdotal evidence from falconers that Gyr have a level flight speed in excess of 100mph...
cheers
martin
richard jb
Well-known member
This thread is pure top trumps gold.
scuba0095, who would win in a 3 way showdown between a Goshawk, a Great Skua and a Raven defending a nest?
Assume level, but rocky ground, and all birds are well rested.
scuba0095, who would win in a 3 way showdown between a Goshawk, a Great Skua and a Raven defending a nest?
Assume level, but rocky ground, and all birds are well rested.
The Raven is the weakest out of the 3 I would think. Goshawks predate Ravens. Great Skuas are definitely stronger than Ravens because they have been recorded taking much larger prey items and on a more regular basis.
Between a Goshawk and a Great Skua.....I would assume Goshawk....
When it comes to nest defence both Skua and Goshawks have been known to fly directly at humans, probably making physical contact of some sort.
As for Goshawk and Buzzard..the talons of a Goshawk are much more powerful. My friend has kept Goshawks and Sakers ...his Goshawks nearly always eat his Sakers. A Goshawk can kill much larger prey than Buzzards, and Buzzards are recorded frequently in the diet of the Goshawk.
Between a Goshawk and a Great Skua.....I would assume Goshawk....
When it comes to nest defence both Skua and Goshawks have been known to fly directly at humans, probably making physical contact of some sort.
As for Goshawk and Buzzard..the talons of a Goshawk are much more powerful. My friend has kept Goshawks and Sakers ...his Goshawks nearly always eat his Sakers. A Goshawk can kill much larger prey than Buzzards, and Buzzards are recorded frequently in the diet of the Goshawk.
ok this is getting silly
for one goshawks power over red tails and other family of the buzzards just ask a thousand falconers you will see how weak they are compared to the other buzzard family. There is a HUGE power differance between a goshawk and a redtail even when they are the same size. EVEry falconer or any person who has hands on experience with such birds will agree. They cannot even be compared. Buteos are the most powerful hawks. If you don't believe go to the forum and chit chan with the few thousand that keep both species. It is not a small differance in power the power between these 2 species is immense.
Raven is the weakest but the raven is by far the smartest of these birds. The raven uses its brains to almost always have its way. Brains usually wins over brons.
The skua is most aggressive with the best flying ability and has extreme speed along with amazing agility and immense power. They also have talons that can shred and grip. They have a semi raptor like bill that can cause extreme damage. Again nothing messes with a skua they are built as though they are made out of iron. Has anyone even handle a bonxie? It is the most solid bird pound for pound or one of them. In the north bonxies always have their way no matter what. Just the odd GBB gull who is huge and experienced might get the better of one sometimes. BUT bonxies have kiled gbb gulls and never vice versa. Still gbb gulls are the only birds who can put up a fight and turn the tables sometimes.
NO other bird raptor or not does this. Goshawk will never come in contact with one. Even if it did it would nenver get a grip and hang on. The skua is much bigger than most goshawks it will be like a flea on a dog.
You cannot compare oppourtunist scrappers to a specialized killer. COmmon buzzards kill goshawks. Goshawks do not kill common buzzards. Goshawks kill honey buzzards. It is a common misconception thinking that goshawks kill common buzzards because the goshawks will prey on honey buzzards, silly people got confused.
IN reality common buzzard will kill any falcon, or any goshawk it catches off guard wihin seconds. ALL falconers birds usually die from buzzard attacks. Even the harris hawak. ONLY the red tail is a hawk the common buzzard wont dare attack and if it does the buzzard ends up dead.
When all eating on a carrion road kill near the sea if there are often common buzzards, some gulls maybe, crows. ravens, red kites sometimes or black kites? EVERYTHING gets out of the bonxies way including the common buzzard.
for one goshawks power over red tails and other family of the buzzards just ask a thousand falconers you will see how weak they are compared to the other buzzard family. There is a HUGE power differance between a goshawk and a redtail even when they are the same size. EVEry falconer or any person who has hands on experience with such birds will agree. They cannot even be compared. Buteos are the most powerful hawks. If you don't believe go to the forum and chit chan with the few thousand that keep both species. It is not a small differance in power the power between these 2 species is immense.
Raven is the weakest but the raven is by far the smartest of these birds. The raven uses its brains to almost always have its way. Brains usually wins over brons.
The skua is most aggressive with the best flying ability and has extreme speed along with amazing agility and immense power. They also have talons that can shred and grip. They have a semi raptor like bill that can cause extreme damage. Again nothing messes with a skua they are built as though they are made out of iron. Has anyone even handle a bonxie? It is the most solid bird pound for pound or one of them. In the north bonxies always have their way no matter what. Just the odd GBB gull who is huge and experienced might get the better of one sometimes. BUT bonxies have kiled gbb gulls and never vice versa. Still gbb gulls are the only birds who can put up a fight and turn the tables sometimes.
NO other bird raptor or not does this. Goshawk will never come in contact with one. Even if it did it would nenver get a grip and hang on. The skua is much bigger than most goshawks it will be like a flea on a dog.
You cannot compare oppourtunist scrappers to a specialized killer. COmmon buzzards kill goshawks. Goshawks do not kill common buzzards. Goshawks kill honey buzzards. It is a common misconception thinking that goshawks kill common buzzards because the goshawks will prey on honey buzzards, silly people got confused.
IN reality common buzzard will kill any falcon, or any goshawk it catches off guard wihin seconds. ALL falconers birds usually die from buzzard attacks. Even the harris hawak. ONLY the red tail is a hawk the common buzzard wont dare attack and if it does the buzzard ends up dead.
When all eating on a carrion road kill near the sea if there are often common buzzards, some gulls maybe, crows. ravens, red kites sometimes or black kites? EVERYTHING gets out of the bonxies way including the common buzzard.
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martin kitching
Obsessed seawatcher
Perhaps if you could quote sources that confirm some of the statements you've made, as requested in posts #26, #27, #28, things would be a bit less silly?
Goshawk have been recorded predating Common Buzzard nestlings and adults in the Netherlands so
Have you ever actually seen a Great Skua, Goshawk, Raven or Common Buzzard? I think that an understanding of your field experience with all of these species might add some context to the discussion.
cheers
martin
Goshawk have been recorded predating Common Buzzard nestlings and adults in the Netherlands so
is simply incorrect
Have you ever actually seen a Great Skua, Goshawk, Raven or Common Buzzard? I think that an understanding of your field experience with all of these species might add some context to the discussion.
cheers
martin
Goshawks and Great Skuas are a similar size in length but Skuas weigh more. I have no idea how powerful Redtails are but Goshawks kill much larger prey than European Buzzards.
You are right but Goshawsk manage to hunt much larger birds than themselves with ease. I have never seen a Goshawk and Buzzard together but most research suggests Buzzards can be predated by Goshawks in Europe.
Catching off guard is another issue. If fully aware Goshawsk would usually dominate.
You are right but Goshawsk manage to hunt much larger birds than themselves with ease. I have never seen a Goshawk and Buzzard together but most research suggests Buzzards can be predated by Goshawks in Europe.
Catching off guard is another issue. If fully aware Goshawsk would usually dominate.
again martin the goshawk only kills honey buzzards its a myth that they prey on adult common buzzards. THe eagle owl does the goshawk does NOT. The eagle owl will also kill and eat goshawks.
If you have not seem them together in the wild this is them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFoWSq4B03o
THe buzzard will kill it if it gets a good chance though as it will kill a falconry bird
If you want proof of common buzzards killing goshawks falconers goshawks you go on that forum yourself and look and ask. As stuff like that is not part of this forum and you cant just start pasting peoples birds dying because they fly them in buzzard territory. Also if you want proof of how weak a goshawk is compared to the other hawks like red tail family just go there and ask yourself. That is also not something you can chat here about it has nothing to do with this thread. I dont even agree with with falconry I think it is wrong and falconers 75 percent of the time have no respect for wildlife or birds. So you stop being lazy and go do your own research.
If you have not seem them together in the wild this is them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFoWSq4B03o
THe buzzard will kill it if it gets a good chance though as it will kill a falconry bird
If you want proof of common buzzards killing goshawks falconers goshawks you go on that forum yourself and look and ask. As stuff like that is not part of this forum and you cant just start pasting peoples birds dying because they fly them in buzzard territory. Also if you want proof of how weak a goshawk is compared to the other hawks like red tail family just go there and ask yourself. That is also not something you can chat here about it has nothing to do with this thread. I dont even agree with with falconry I think it is wrong and falconers 75 percent of the time have no respect for wildlife or birds. So you stop being lazy and go do your own research.
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Sangahyando
Well-known member
That's not how burden of proof works. You make the claims, you source them. Anecdotal evidence from falconers is nice, but scientific proof is better. Besides, who says the people on that forum (which you haven't provided a link to) are all falconers?
Posting one video with a buzzard displacing a young goshawk doesn't do much either. Stronger animals frequently get their kill stolen from them by weaker ones, particularly if they're inexperienced. I've read about goshawks and even eagles losing their prey to Red Kites on occasion. Not to mention the stupid annoying music in videos such as that one and the general immature "x vs y, who will win" stuff. It doesn't matter who is "more awesome", that's just personal taste. Personally I tend to not like birds such as skuas precisely because of their attitude, but that doesn't matter to anyone except myself.
It's obvious from observation as well as scientific research that Northern Goshawks are big game hunters with large powerful talons and CB are generalists who prefer small prey. That buzzards may be aggressive towards Goshawks is a logical reaction to a potential predator and competitor, similar to mobbing. It does not mean that they actually intend to kill and eat the goshawks. Crows mob goshawks and buzzards for much the same reason.
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WOrst logic in the world using that sad sad logic a p falcon should have stronger talons than buzards and caracara also since they hunt larger animals?
same with the gyrfalcon
You need to get it through your heads goshawks do not kill large animals on their own the whole hare thing was a falconry thing otherwise they are nothing but bird killers and killing a grey heron in the air is very easy for a bird who is a good flyier great skuas do it so do gulls as herons are poor flyiers
The goshawk does not kill anything impressive one tried to kill a mink and it got away, a goshawk cannot kill anything powerful on its own the falconer helps an adult hare that is large can be grabbed but it must have the falconers help before being kicked off. An adult feral cat ?? it will shred a goshawk to pieces of the hawk does not let go or if the falconer does not rescue it. Stop living in a fantasy world and accept reality. They do not kill anything healthy that is very large or powerful. They kill herring gulls but goshawks weigh more than herring gulls!!! Even if the gull looks bigger the goshawk still weighs more.
same with the gyrfalcon
You need to get it through your heads goshawks do not kill large animals on their own the whole hare thing was a falconry thing otherwise they are nothing but bird killers and killing a grey heron in the air is very easy for a bird who is a good flyier great skuas do it so do gulls as herons are poor flyiers
The goshawk does not kill anything impressive one tried to kill a mink and it got away, a goshawk cannot kill anything powerful on its own the falconer helps an adult hare that is large can be grabbed but it must have the falconers help before being kicked off. An adult feral cat ?? it will shred a goshawk to pieces of the hawk does not let go or if the falconer does not rescue it. Stop living in a fantasy world and accept reality. They do not kill anything healthy that is very large or powerful. They kill herring gulls but goshawks weigh more than herring gulls!!! Even if the gull looks bigger the goshawk still weighs more.
your big game hunting thing is the biggest laughing joke i have ever heard on my life. THE ONLY bird who is a big game hunter are the eagles and eagle owls.
Did you watch my video? the goshawks talons were too weak to fend off the carrion eating buzzard. The goshawk was not able to damage the buzzard it is not strong enough.
Had that been a medium sized owl of any species OR any larger hawk like a red tail the buzzard would have been killed locking talons like that. The goshawk could never hurt it face to face if its life depended on it. The goshawk could kill it from the back in a suprise attack and vice versa. Be realistic. THey are bird killers and sometimes small mammal thats it. They are nothing like a red tail when it comes to hunting ability.
THey have exceptional flying skills and extreme aggression. WHen caught by a larger BOP or one the same size they are dead like a chicken.
Here is a little something to give you a taste just one of many many ones who fall victim to them and this was a large female:
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Default Re: Wild Common Buzzard kills falcon!
i had my female gos in a scuffle with a buzzard after she had flown a pheasant down in to a wood they ended up in apond when eventualy i tracked her down i found the gos with the buzzard on top of her , it flew off on my approach but two weeks later the gos was dieognosed with asper so can only put that down to the stress that the ordeal she had gon through ,
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Default Re: Goshawk and buzzard natural video
Cb are a pain I the behind and people have had birds killed by them they are more common then ther name these days some times as many as a dozen above my house we are let know by are redtails who hate them
In the cz republic they are haveing an impact on hare population working like harris hawks the population is dropping dramatically and fast
Atb wayne
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Did you watch my video? the goshawks talons were too weak to fend off the carrion eating buzzard. The goshawk was not able to damage the buzzard it is not strong enough.
Had that been a medium sized owl of any species OR any larger hawk like a red tail the buzzard would have been killed locking talons like that. The goshawk could never hurt it face to face if its life depended on it. The goshawk could kill it from the back in a suprise attack and vice versa. Be realistic. THey are bird killers and sometimes small mammal thats it. They are nothing like a red tail when it comes to hunting ability.
THey have exceptional flying skills and extreme aggression. WHen caught by a larger BOP or one the same size they are dead like a chicken.
Here is a little something to give you a taste just one of many many ones who fall victim to them and this was a large female:
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BillyPacey BillyPacey is offline
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Default Re: Wild Common Buzzard kills falcon!
i had my female gos in a scuffle with a buzzard after she had flown a pheasant down in to a wood they ended up in apond when eventualy i tracked her down i found the gos with the buzzard on top of her , it flew off on my approach but two weeks later the gos was dieognosed with asper so can only put that down to the stress that the ordeal she had gon through ,
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Wayne - Formerly DogManDango
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Default Re: Goshawk and buzzard natural video
Cb are a pain I the behind and people have had birds killed by them they are more common then ther name these days some times as many as a dozen above my house we are let know by are redtails who hate them
In the cz republic they are haveing an impact on hare population working like harris hawks the population is dropping dramatically and fast
Atb wayne
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martin kitching
Obsessed seawatcher
As much as it pains me to waste my time replying...
No, it's a genuine field observation by one of the most well-respected raptor researchers in Europe. His observations are in the published scientific literature. Go do your own research...
I've seen Common Buzzard and Goshawk together in the wild plenty of times, usually when a Common Buzzard is being chased out of a Goshawk territory :t:
Any chance of a reply to this question?
I'd respectfully suggest that you learn more about your local birds (your recent Great Spotted Woodpecker comment revealed that you're still on a steep learning curve) before trying to tell European raptor researchers about what our birds do/don't or can/can't do.
martin
No, it's a genuine field observation by one of the most well-respected raptor researchers in Europe. His observations are in the published scientific literature. Go do your own research...
I've seen Common Buzzard and Goshawk together in the wild plenty of times, usually when a Common Buzzard is being chased out of a Goshawk territory :t:
martin kitching said:
Any chance of a reply to this question?
I'd respectfully suggest that you learn more about your local birds (your recent Great Spotted Woodpecker comment revealed that you're still on a steep learning curve) before trying to tell European raptor researchers about what our birds do/don't or can/can't do.
martin
Sangahyando
Well-known member
They do, proportionally. I've held a live Peregrine in my hands before. Claws were twice as big as my cat's, and that was just a fluffy juvenile Peregrine. Also falcons usually kill with their beak, so I'd expect them to put slightly less emphasis on a strong grip.
As for the rest of your post, I suggest you go watch some birds before continuing like that. If you behave in a more mature way and get to know the right people, maybe a ringer might take you along when ringing goshawks, then you can see for yourself what they look like.
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