Great White Egret (3 Viewers)

[robinm]

I agree this is a potentially great site and a mind-boggling undertaking.

 

[Grousemore]

Not to confuse the issue even further, but Grousemore used the term "Great White Heron" which in the USA is the white morph of the "Great Blue Heron" found in Florida. It is, of course, Ardea herodias.

Why not?!
I've just noticed that my Peterson Field Guide refers to both the above mentioned as 'Ardea herodiUs',which Logos, in his detailed post, states has long been redundant.

 

[logos]

Ah, the plot thickens further, Herodius (note the capital H) was an old generic name for Great Egret but herodias (lower case h) is the specific name of Great Blue Heron. Just a coincidence I guess.


Spud

 

[MikeMules]

Hi logos,

the -a, -us endings on specific names change depending on whether the genus is masculine or feminine (in the original latin). So Casmerodius is a masculine genus (hence "albus") and Egretta and Ardea are feminine genera (so the specific name for either is "alba"). The same rule would apply to the sub-specific name of the South African egret.

 

[logos]

Cheers Mike,

didn't know that at all, it makes much more sense now because I couldn't understand why some very authoritative texts had suddenly started using albus etc...

Spud

 

[Michael Frankis]

Some may find this site interestingl:

http://worldbirdinfo.net/

It's an awsome undertaking and still in progress but is looking very good.

Spud

Looks it certainly, but I don't like the way it is so heavily pro-American in name choice, even for birds which are not American in distribution - when it claims to give English names, it doesn't, it gives American names. Try a search for Yellow-browed Warbler, for example.

Michael

 

[logos]

It uses the names used given in its major references and makes no attempt to change these which is probably wise. it is always best to use the scientific names when searching (though as we've seen these are not always stable!) and failing that an option to search for English synonyms exists.

I doubt it would take more than a couple of attempts at most to find what you are looking for.

Spud

 

[Michael Frankis]

Ah, the plot thickens further, Herodius (note the capital H) was an old generic name for Great Egret but herodias (lower case h) is the specific name of Great Blue Heron. Just a coincidence I guess.

Spud

Hi Spud,

Not so much a coincidence, as unimaginitive authors recycling the same limited number of classical bird names over and over in as many ways as possible. 'erodias' is ancient Greek for a bird presumed to be a heron, so it gets used (with varying spelling!) as a genus name, as species names in other genera, with various prefixes or suffixes to drag more in (Casmerodius, Pilherodius, Zonerodius, Calherodius) and so on. This sort of thing is rife in zoology!

Michael

 

[logos]

How odi(o)us!

spud

 

[Michael Frankis]

3

For an even worse set, take a look at the number of pigeon genera & species that have either 'phaps' or else 'oena'/'oenus' somewhere in their name

Michael

 

[Dave B Smith]

I can't help much untangling the confusion of the latin names but if you see the bird in the US and it has yellow bill and black legs its Great Egret. If it has yellow bill and yellow legs, its Great White Heron (White Morph of Great Blue Heron).

Just in case this helps someone.

 

[Tero]

Linguistics, DNA, the stuf you folks gotta know. I just look at the book, and the birds is..whatever book I have in hand. Most of my books are new, though. *some smiley here*

 

[Larry Lade]

Logos, I went to the website you mentioned above. It is something else!!!

I noticed when I went to: Peter's Family List, Sibley-Monroe Family List and Gill 2nd Ed. Family List that egrets and herons are not listed in the first two. And only herons (not egrets) are listed in the latter.

(that site was worldbirdinfo.net)

I was going to check on the nomenclature for Great Egret.

 

[logos]

Hi Larry,

The details of ALL herons seem to be missing from the Gill 2nd edn list (they're certainly not listed underCICONIIFORMES were they would normally be) but in the other two they are there under CICONIIFORMES, although the authors differ in their use of subfamilies with Peters having a liberal approach:

ARDEIDAE(Ardeinae) Day Herons
ARDEIDAE(Nycticoracinae,Nycticoracini) Night Herons
ARDEIDAE(Nycticoracinae,Cochleariini) Boat-billed Heron
ARDEIDAE(Tigrisomatinae) Tiger Herons
ARDEIDAE(Botaurinae,Zebrilini) Zigzag Heron
ARDEIDAE(Botaurinae,Botaurini) Bitterns

And Sibley and Monroe a more conservative view:

ARDEIDAE Herons,Bitterns,Egrets

Looking at the individual case of Great Egret it appears that Gill 2nd edn follows a conservative route too:

Peters Family Name: ARDEIDAE(Ardeinae): Day Herons
Sibley-Monroe Family Name: ARDEIDAE:Herons,Bitterns,Egrets
Gill (2nd Ed.) Family Name: ARDEIDAE:Herons,Egrets,Bitterns

Must admit I always do a search based on individual species names.

Spud

 

[logos]

Not sure where that bouncy thing came from!

It should read "Day Herons"

 

[robinm]

Logos; For info you need to put a space between the colon and the D otherwise it's interpreted as a smilie

 

[logos]

Aha!! cheers,

actually I just cut and pasted and thought it must be something to do with that.

 

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Spud,

If you want to, click on 'edit', and stick a space in between the : and the D, then the will vanish

Michael

 

[Larry Lade]

Thanks, Spud, I found the egrets and herons with your assistance.

Larry