Grimley and Holt (1 Viewer)

[Phil Andrews]

Nice one Phil.....BTW and off topic, are you still doing the Shetland vs Scillies thing this year despite your non-attendance 'oop North'?

Below - the view from the other side 'Oi, Caspians only mate and where's yer permit?.....

ATB Laurie:t:

Will be kicking off something along those lines in the next couple of days.

Looking to sneak a few days on Scilly mid October if things are jumpin'.

 

[Brian Stretch]

Norman - Ron, if he ain't a juvenile he ain't comin' in
Gareth - Ron, don't ya mean first calender year?


BTW Monday looks the most interesting day with SE winds (at least in the morning) and rain, although I suspect those winds havent come from far

Was thinking the same Phil, conditions looks promising but then we've been here before and you know what the Midlands is like, it often fails to deliver.

Still, Grimley has certainly had a good run over the past three weeks or so: 2 Common Scoters, Spotshank, 3 Black-tailed Godwits, two or three Greenshanks, Med Gull, Y-l Gull, 15 Little Egrets (easily the largest single count for Worcs), 2 Whinchats, 6 Tree Pipits, 4 Spotted Flycatchers, 20+ Redstarts etc

Brian
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[Phil Andrews]

BTW Monday looks the most interesting day with SE winds (at least in the morning) and rain, although I suspect those winds havent come from far

Can Mystic Phil claim his prize please with Grimley breaking UW's monopoly on Blue-winged Teal records?

 

[Bk56]

nice to see Grimley pulls in yet another good bird. It really must be the mecca for birding in that neck of the woods. hats off B

 

[spuggyhawk]

I popped down for the BWT today... A first for me. However Lee Evans was there and he's saying its a BWT x Pochard hybrid.

Jon

 

[Brian Stretch]

I popped down for the BWT today... A first for me. However Lee Evans was there and he's saying its a BWT x Pochard hybrid.

Jon

I think he's claiming it as Blue-winged x Northern Shoveler hybrid. There are previous cases of anas x aythya hybrids but I don't know of any confirmed BWT x Pochard records.

With regards to the Grimley bird, the possibility of it being a hybrid was considered last night, especially as I was aware of the famous Daventry bird a couple of years ago. For anyone who is not aware of that bird see the pics here, here and here.

The Daventry bird has an abnormally large bill which depending on posture appears remarkably Shoveler-like in some pictures more than others. The Grimley bird has a reasonably large bill but not as large as the Daventry bird and appears to be within normal variation given some of the shots of pure birds here and here.

The often quoted broken pale eye ring was my main concern last night and while the Grimley bird has one, it's not as prominent as I would of expected but having researched online, there are plenty of pictures of birds in the US with very faint or no obvious eye ring; eg here (also note the variation in bill size) and here.

One of the criticisms of the Daventry bird was the pale edge to the upper mandible but again this can be found on birds in the US eg; here.

The question is, are we being too critical with some of these birds, when we are not used to seeing the full range of plumage and bare part variation within the species. You only have to closely scrutinise a flock of Common Teal to see how variable individual birds are.

The Grimley bird is certainly an educational individual to see, whatever it is, and well worth a visit.

Brian
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[Gert Corfield]

Hi Brian
A well considered post. I've been starring at eclipse Blue Winged Teal photos on the interweb for the last 40 minutes and a lot of them have large bills! So I tend to agree with you, even if my post is not quite so researched!
Definitely worth a look as you say for the educational value alone and that's what makes birding so enjoyable.

All the best

 

[spuggyhawk]

Sorry Brian .. my mistake I meant Northern shovler.

Gertatron.. Ive been doing the same and from my limited experience it looks ok to me and yes there are a lot of variables.

Jon

 

[midlands birder]

I have just seen LGRE's pics on Twitter, and the bird does seem to have a much larger bill than I remember and from other photos I have seen. They are however fairly bad quality and have a feeling the images are deliberately selected to prove his point. Still await some of the big lensvlads to post some images

 

[Phil Andrews]

I have just seen LGRE's pics on Twitter, and the bird does seem to have a much larger bill than I remember and from other photos I have seen. They are however fairly bad quality and have a feeling the images are deliberately selected to prove his point. Still await some of the big lensvlads to post some images

There are a couple of shots on WorcesterBirding http://www.worcesterbirding.co.uk/worcestershire_bird_news_60.html; Vern promised to post a few of his pics later.

Lee's shot and thoughts here: https://twitter.com/LeeEvansBirding/status/504348541553504256/photo/1

 

[Stone Snapper]

There are a couple of shots on WorcesterBirding http://www.worcesterbirding.co.uk/worcestershire_bird_news_60.html; Vern promised to post a few of his pics later.

Lee's shot and thoughts here: https://twitter.com/LeeEvansBirding/status/504348541553504256/photo/1

Sent my pics to Brian whom is on the case so will know soon what it is hopefully cheers

 

[Ravenwing]

"Blue-winged Teal"

My best photo for what its worth.

 

[Brian Stretch]

I was going to knock this on the head for the night but having emailed Andy Warr with Vern's excellent flight shot here he agrees with me that the upper wing pattern is suggestive of a 1st-summer drake B-w Teal.

Here is one from the US.

More tomorrow maybe...

Brian
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[Dick-E-Dipper]

Just to add my tuppence worth, and I dont hold to be as expert as Brian & others, but from surfing and looking through Peter Scott`s wildfowl book it looks a strong candidate for an Atlantic BWT(anas discors discors).
I didnt realise that there is a similar species - anas discors orphna -a Prairy BWT. (which appears less `scaley`)

I am surprised at LE`s comments on Twitter!

 

[rollingthunder]

As you state Brian an educational bird, particularly when somebody throws in the 'hybrid' equation. It highlights the fact that guides are just that and at least these days there is the Internet to compare spp wherever they occur. All grist to the mill and i look forward to a conclusion at some stage.

Whether or not the creature has a dodgy provenance still a good run of birds of late.

Laurie:t:

 

[Stone Snapper]

uploaded the Blue winged teal to my old Flickr so you can see it on link below

 

[andy hale]

Nice flight picture Vern. Is that a trace of orange at the base of the bill!?

 

[Stone Snapper]

Nice flight picture Vern. Is that a trace of orange at the base of the bill!?

Its a pinkish colour Andy
:t:

 

[Brian Stretch]

Having had much better views in good light conditions early this morning I'm willing to concede that the bird is most likely a hybrid. My main concern is the amount of yellow/orange colouration along the sides of the bill, along both the upper and lower mandibles. It's much more extensive than it appeared when first seen in poor light and wet conditions. On the other hand, the feature that slightly bothered me when I first found it was the faint eye ring, but in much better light this morning, the eye rings were much more conspicuous and looked perfect.

What the parentage is though, is difficult to be certain but Blue-winged Teal x Northern Shoveler is probably the most likely. Blue-winged x Cinnamon may also be a possibility, as the latter have bills not unlike the Grimley bird. But who knows and if nothing else it's been a very good way of learning about the variability of a species which you can't obtain by reading the literature. For anyone who wants to learn about in-the-field identification, then I would strongly recommend taking a look at this bird. A couple of pics from this morning below.

Brian
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[Brian Stretch]

There are a couple of shots on WorcesterBirding http://www.worcesterbirding.co.uk/worcestershire_bird_news_60.html; Vern promised to post a few of his pics later.

Lee's shot and thoughts here: https://twitter.com/LeeEvansBirding/status/504348541553504256/photo/1

Just a small point on LGRE's twitter post that I find curious is the comment about orange legs. His reason for raising this feature is presumably as a negative point. The leg colour of Blue-winged Teal is supposed to be a subdued orange, just like the Grimley bird. There is no problem with reasoned and constructive comments, but picking fault with this feature does not help prove his point.

Brian
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