Hands on with new Mavens (1 Viewer)

[Pileatus]

This thread made the news!
http://phys.org/news/2016-01-giant-gas-cloud-boomeranging-milky.html

 

[[email protected]]

Dennis

Free advertising: you do mention your Swaro 10x50's rather excessively and promote their undoubted abilities with manic enthusiasm. I am not saying it is wrong to be enthusiastic about favourite bins, but others could see this as free advertising too, so don't be so quick to point fingers.

Being unbiased is almost impossible. When I review stuff I do try to bring out the best points in all the bins I test, but just having a personal preference for a wide field of view or zero chromatic aberration or a focuser that has even tension in both directions means that a reviewer is naturally biased towards those bins that satisfy these preferences. Its hard to overcome these instincts and thats without discussing loyalities to particular brands.

Lee

I am not sure what the arrangement Steve and Frank have with the manufacturers they review binoculars for but I do know when I did some short binocular reviews years ago I received free binoculars to test. I think getting something free could possibly create a bias when you review it. What do you think? I have never received anything free from Swarovski outside of items under warranty or maybe a ball cap and objective covers and I consider my opinions on them just a recommendation just like everybody has a favorite binocular yours being Zeiss. I have no problem with that. But Steve and Frank's reviews are professionally done reviews from a credible source and I am sure it stimulates sales and lends credence to that binocular maker in the birding community. I am sure without Frank's recommendation of the Sightron Blue Sky that binocular may not have garnered much interest unless somebody else "discovered" it. I value their opinions and they do a service to the birding community by uncovering "Hidden Gems" in the binocular market for a less than alpha price so I don't want to be too critical of what they do because many people can not afford to spend $2K for a binocular. But in essence it advertising for that binocular, whereas, my reviews are just my opinions.

 

[perterra]

Dennis

Free advertising: you do mention your Swaro 10x50's rather excessively and promote their undoubted abilities with manic enthusiasm. I am not saying it is wrong to be enthusiastic about favourite bins, but others could see this as free advertising too, so don't be so quick to point fingers.

Being unbiased is almost impossible. When I review stuff I do try to bring out the best points in all the bins I test, but just having a personal preference for a wide field of view or zero chromatic aberration or a focuser that has even tension in both directions means that a reviewer is naturally biased towards those bins that satisfy these preferences. Its hard to overcome these instincts and thats without discussing loyalities to particular brands.

Lee

It seems the one who originated pump and dump is whining.

 

[Troubador]

But in essence it advertising for that binocular, whereas, my reviews are just my opinions.

You are drawing a subtle distinction here that I don't think exists.

All reviews are just someone's opinion and in most ways that matter, opinions expressed on here are indistinguishable from phrases or sentences lifted from a review.

Lee

 

[perterra]

You are drawing a subtle distinction here that I don't think exists.

All reviews are just someone's opinion and in most ways that matter, opinions expressed on here are indistinguishable from phrases or sentences lifted from a review.

Lee

Lee, I love ya man, but if you keep throwing scraps out it will never quit whining.

At least dont quote it,

 

[jan van daalen]

Yes, but don't you think Steve and Frank are almost a contract reviewer for that manufacturer since they receive free test binoculars so they can write a review for them. They are almost like a "Hired Gun" to help get that unknown binocular some publicity or validity.

Shame on you Dennis, for your assumption that Steve and Frank are for sale.

Jan

 

[Troubador]

Yes, but don't you think Steve and Frank are almost a contract reviewer for that manufacturer since they receive free test binoculars so they can write a review for them. They are almost like a "Hired Gun" to help get that unknown binocular some publicity or validity.

Dennis

Whenever I hear this sort of question I always say: Do you mean your opinion would be for sale? Are you saying you would lie to get something free? Is this what you would do? Because this is what you are accusing other people of.

I have no reason to believe any posters on BF would praise a POS pair of binoculars so that they could get a pair of POS binoculars free of charge.

Lee

 

[Steve C]

Shame on you Dennis, for your assumption that Steve and Frank are for sale.

Jan

Jan,

Thanks very much for that. I appreciate it a lot. :t: When the troll decides to infect a thread things can go to pot in a hurry. It is really nice to see when somebody finally says something to him. Thank You.

Lee, I thank you too.

Dennis obviously has no clue how much time, effort, and my money go into my hobby here. I speak only for myself, Frank can react in his own capable fashion. I started doing reviews because I did not like what I found. What reviews there were always left more questions than they provided answers. So I started doing my own, here and other forums. Over the course of that time, I have received enough positive response to get the idea people maybe liked what I did.

So I kept doing reviews I thought were useful and informative. Eventually I was contacted by certain optics sellers. To put a point on this I was the one who contacted Maven, Maven did not contact me. They did offer a binocular for review, but it took little time for me to know that it was staying. I sent them a check for the B2. Dennis, in case this is too tough for you, that means I paid for it. I also sent them a check for the total of three B3's and the B1 that I have. Dennis, in case you missed the point yet again, that means I paid for them. I did get a small discount on the last two B3's and the B1 and on the customization. I still am into Maven well over $1,500 (the precise amount is my own business thank you). I also had to come up with $2,200 to SWFA to start the Swarovski purchases (and subsequent returns) I did there. I finally sold the last Swarovski, a 10x50 SV EL,and I'm down some $500 there at the end, so this adventure has cost me money. Maven did not offer me a deal on the QT for a good review. I did not offer them a good review for any considerations. in the end I got a small discount. That was a lot form a new small company, and I appreciate it. I did not ask for it, and never would have asked for it. I don't mind the money as it was for purchases I freely chose to make. I do mind the insinuations from Dennis.

So Dennis, in case you still miss the point, pay attention to Jan. I'm not for sale. Neither is Frank, but he can confirm that for himself.

Phil thinks you are not an insulting person. I see you as the single most insulting troll on the internet. I take your contributions largely as a personal insult. However to be clear, you are insignificant enough that your insults really don't matter much. The worst part of it is how people here seem to let you troll on. That gets old. Put you on ignore and some kind soul quotes you.

Dennis has never taken the time it takes to take the time it takes to do a review. It takes time, effort, and money to do these things. The next well done review that Dennis does that demonstrates he took the time and effort it takes to do it right will be the first such review he has done.

With apologies to anyone who did not like my reaction, but enough is enough. Thanks out to all who did support me here. I do appreciate it.

 

[[email protected]]

Shame on you Dennis, for your assumption that Steve and Frank are for sale.

Jan

I am not saying that. I have never felt cheated by any of their binoculars I have tried because of their reviews. I feel they are reviewed honestly and they do point out their weaknesses like Steve pointed out right off the bat that the Maven B2 7x45 has a smaller FOV without trying to hide it. Most people wouldn't do that if all they were trying to do is sell a binocular. What I am saying is that I feel it is a little different if you own a binocular and use it and like it and write about it in a positive way versus being given binoculars to test. To me when I did that it just felt different. In a way it is a very good service that they are performing because they are giving the rest us a review of an unknown binocular that we may like to try and with Maven's Demo program it further guarantees that we won't be out anything if we don't like them. I honestly did have QA problems with the Sightron Blue Sky, Theron Questa and the Maven B3 I tried but maybe that is bad luck because many people have been satisfied with them or maybe it is because they are less expensive binoculars than I have owned. Maybe that led to my frustration with their reviews which wasn't their fault really. You can't expect a $500 binocular to equal a $2000 binocular and that is where I was misguided. What I should do is just shut up and go buy a Maven B2 9x45 on the demo program and see for myself how it performs.

 

[jan van daalen]

Jan,

Thanks very much for that. I appreciate it a lot. :t: When the troll decides to infect a thread things can go to pot in a hurry. It is really nice to see when somebody finally says something to him. Thank You.

Lee, I thank you too.

Dennis obviously has no clue how much time, effort, and my money go into my hobby here. I speak only for myself, Frank can react in his own capable fashion. I started doing reviews because I did not like what I found. What reviews there were always left more questions than they provided answers. So I started doing my own, here and other forums. Over the course of that time, I have received enough positive response to get the idea people maybe liked what I did.

So I kept doing reviews I thought were useful and informative. Eventually I was contacted by certain optics sellers. To put a point on this I was the one who contacted Maven, Maven did not contact me. They did offer a binocular for review, but it took little time for me to know that it was staying. I sent them a check for the B2. Dennis, in case this is too tough for you, that means I paid for it. I also sent them a check for the total of three B3's and the B1 that I have. Dennis, in case you missed the point yet again, that means I paid for them. I did get a small discount on the last two B3's and the B1 and on the customization. I still am into Maven well over $1,500 (the precise amount is my own business thank you). I also had to come up with $2,200 to SWFA to start the Swarovski purchases (and subsequent returns) I did there. I finally sold the last Swarovski, a 10x50 SV EL,and I'm down some $500 there at the end, so this adventure has cost me money. Maven did not offer me a deal on the QT for a good review. I did not offer them a good review for any considerations. in the end I got a small discount. That was a lot form a new small company, and I appreciate it. I did not ask for it, and never would have asked for it. I don't mind the money as it was for purchases I freely chose to make. I do mind the insinuations from Dennis.

So Dennis, in case you still miss the point, pay attention to Jan. I'm not for sale. Neither is Frank, but he can confirm that for himself.

Phil thinks you are not an insulting person. I see you as the single most insulting troll on the internet. I take your contributions largely as a personal insult. However to be clear, you are insignificant enough that your insults really don't matter much. The worst part of it is how people here seem to let you troll on. That gets old. Put you on ignore and some kind soul quotes you.

Dennis has never taken the time it takes to take the time it takes to do a review. It takes time, effort, and money to do these things. The next well done review that Dennis does that demonstrates he took the time and effort it takes to do it right will be the first such review he has done.

With apologies to anyone who did not like my reaction, but enough is enough. Thanks out to all who did support me here. I do appreciate it.

You're welcome and be assured I spoke for 99.99999999% of all members.

Jan

 

[[email protected]]

Sorry, about the thread getting off track Steve. I just had some things to get off my chest. My purpose wasn't to upset any members. I am sorry also to Steve C. if he feels I insulted him it wasn't my intention. I believe we go way back when we were passing binoculars around with Frank to test them. Your probably right in that my reviews are quite shallow compared to yours and I have never criticized your reviews. They are excellent and well written. I think my perception of the reviewing process was misguided. I just appreciate good optics and have always been interested in them but sometimes I get a little over zealous in my posts and hurt some peoples feelings. I hope I have contributed some good things to Bird Forum and I will try to be a little more sedate in the future.

 

[Steve C]

Sorry, about the thread getting off track Steve. I just had some things to get off my chest. My purpose wasn't to upset any members. I am sorry also to Steve C. if he feels I insulted him it wasn't my intention. I believe we go way back when we were passing binoculars around with Frank to test them. Your probably right in that my reviews are quite shallow compared to yours and I have never criticized your reviews. They are excellent and well written. I think my perception of the reviewing process was misguided. I just appreciate good optics and have always been interested in them but sometimes I get a little over zealous in my posts and hurt some peoples feelings. I hope I have contributed some good things to Bird Forum and I will try to be a little more sedate in the future.

I have a comment here, but I'll need a bit of time.

 

[jgraider]

I've PM'ed and read Steve C's reviews on several forums, and have always found him to be honest, reliable, knowledgeable, and just an all around stand up guy. He has helped my a lot over the past few years and I am very grateful for it. Thanks Steve, keep up the good work!

 

[james holdsworth]

It's always been Jekyll and Hyde - always.

 

[perterra]

You're welcome and be assured I spoke for 99.99999999% of all members.

Jan

And I thank you for that. Steve has handled it better than I would have. I would not appreciate the insinuations of being a liar.

I enjoy the reviews, regardless of whether I am looking or not.

 

[Steve C]

PM exchange in progress with Dennis. I hope we can bury the hatchet. I fear James is correct, but we'll see.

A lot depends on whether his apology is freely offered or if moderator intervention forced it. He has the chance to tell me which it is.

I really do not enjoy the flame.

I hope this works out.

 

[Troubador]

Jan,

Lee, I thank you too.

Steve

Any time. And Frank too.

Lee

 

[FrankD]

I read all of the posts on every thread. Sometimes I just choose not to answer. Learned that from my significant others over the years.



Just "for the record", I don't receive free binoculars for my reviews. If that was the case then I would own one from about two dozen different manufacturers...including a Zeiss and a Swaro.

At the moment I have two spotting scopes and two binoculars from Athlon Optics. Once I am done with the reviews there is a prepaid return shipping label for me to ship them back. Nothing more than that. I contacted them, not the other way around.

Felt the need to comment since my name has popped up a time or two.

 

[Troubador]

Steve and Frank

No need to explain anything, just keep on giving us your personal views on equipment you try out.

We all have to make up our own minds about the kit anyway, if we are considering buying it.

Your views are much appreciated.

Lee

 

[FrankD]

Thank you Lee.