Hawke Frontier ED: another open bridge ED bin from China (1 Viewer)

[pw53]

Frank,

You must be a kinder person than I am because my first thought after discovering the $50.- price hike had to do with greed...greed on the part of the Indiana offices. As Kevin said, it seems that the Bird Forum's members are doing all the marketing for them and we get to pay Hawke Optical. It is only $50.-, yet the timing of this increase seems a bit "coincidental" and I for one am left with a bad taste in my mouth and I may now look elsewhere. Kevin's idea of a "promo price" seems reasonable. Perhaps Indiana will offer an explanation this coming week.

 

[pw53]

Just checked out Sherwood's website (UK) where the Frontier ED's are still 279.- pounds (sorry, no pound character on my keyboard). No price increase there!!

 

[Hawke Optics]

Hi, just a word on pricing. We had a new price list on October 1st. As mentioned before, we are a manufacturer and distribute predominantly through the trade. We set an SRP, but it is down to the dealer how they price the product.

You will always get the best price through your local dealer and this is how we would encourage you to buy.

 

[Steve C]

I would still tell people that the Promaster ELX ED is a bargin at $750. Even if the price has gone up $50 you still have the opportunity to buy the best binocular, in the Promaster and from all appearances the Hawke, that has ever been produced in its price range. How cheap do you want? Yes there's cheaper, but you get what you pay for.

What I am waiting for is to see what the Promaster and Hawke will look like when the decision is made to spend another $250-300 on some further improvements. The alphas will have some serious competition then. They have serious competition from these two $500 glasses now and as yet maybe don't realize it. As yet prospective buyers don't seem to get it either.

I'll post some more later, but after the last few days, my binocular stable has been reduced to the 8x42 Promaster ELX, the 7x36 Swift Eaglet and 6x30 Yosemite. The Fury 6.5x32 would stay if I had not already sold it to my brother. This is from some extreme condition usage observations and not economics.

 

[FrankD]

Steve,

Nice post and very well said. Granted there was a $50 price increase but we are still talking about a high quality binocular (optically and in design) that will ship to your day for less than $500!

I would agree with Steve's comments. Even at $750 or even $1000 I would still recommend this binocular for price versus performance. At under $500 shipped they are a flippin' steal!

They have serious competition from these two $500 glasses now and as yet maybe don't realize it. As yet prospective buyers don't seem to get it either.

Isn't that the truth. Just wait until more people get their hands on either of these bins.

 

[Kevin Purcell]

I sid this elsewhere but ...

I'm not too happy about the timing of the US price hike (the UK price didn't change). It seems very curiously timed just after our interest is piqued. Hawke shows no interest in doing a deal for the people who own the top two Google hits on their bin.

http://www.google.com/search?q=hawke+frontier+ed

Hawke don't seem to understand price anchoring and it's effect on consumers either. When Jobs did this with the iPhone he threw a bone to the early adopters with a discount coupon.

http://sloanreview.mit.edu/wsj/insight/interview/2008/09/22/

$429 looks like a good deal i.e. it became our price anchor - the one you benchmark other prices from: so you think what does Promaster offer to justify that extra price? Now $50 higher price (and you start to think about shipping too) you have $489 for Hawke ED and $499 for the Promaster (ships free from CameraLandNY). This switches the price anchor to Promaster and one wonders what is the Hawke missing for that $10 difference.

So those similar prices makes people think more carefully. What's the difference?

The Hawke ED has wide FOV but that brings worse stray light performance as a consequence seen by both Frank and commented on by the Chinese designer over at birdforum. It's missing the hydrophobic and lipophobic coatings that the Promaster. It has slightly more nice accessories (but I've found with my Vortex Diamondback bins I prefer the Cordura bag with Fastex closure to the fancier shaped bag).

Frank's review gives the nod to Hawke for the more rounded eyecup shape and the feel of the focusing knob and the depth of focus is "a bit better too". Perhaps slightly better contrast.

The Promaster has a slightly narrower (but 7.5 degree still fine) FOV, better stray light control, the repellent coatings.

But that $50 hike does seem to make it an even race: from rounding down to a $400 bin to rounding up to a $500. I guess marketing saw the Promaster MSRP and though they'ed do that too.

So you makes yer choice and take yer pick. Perhaps a choice people wouldn't think to hard about if that significant (10%) price difference was still there.

 

[Pileatus]

I sid this elsewhere but ...

I'm not too happy about the timing of the US price hike (the UK price didn't change). It seems very curiously timed just after our interest is piqued. Hawke shows no interest in doing a deal for the people who own the top two Google hits on their bin.

http://www.google.com/search?q=hawke+frontier+ed

Hawke don't seem to understand price anchoring and it's effect on consumers either. When Jobs did this with the iPhone he threw a bone to the early adopters with a discount coupon.

http://sloanreview.mit.edu/wsj/insight/interview/2008/09/22/

$429 looks like a good deal i.e. it became our price anchor - the one you benchmark other prices from: so you think what does Promaster offer to justify that extra price? Now $50 higher price (and you start to think about shipping too) you have $489 for Hawke ED and $499 for the Promaster (ships free from CameraLandNY). This switches the price anchor to Promaster and one wonders what is the Hawke missing for that $10 difference.

So those similar prices makes people think more carefully. What's the difference?

The Hawke ED has wide FOV but that brings worse stray light performance as a consequence seen by both Frank and commented on by the Chinese designer over at birdforum. It's missing the hydrophobic and lipophobic coatings that the Promaster. It has slightly more nice accessories (but I've found with my Vortex Diamondback bins I prefer the Cordura bag with Fastex closure to the fancier shaped bag).

Frank's review gives the nod to Hawke for the more rounded eyecup shape and the feel of the focusing knob and the depth of focus is "a bit better too". Perhaps slightly better contrast.

The Promaster has a slightly narrower (but 7.5 degree still fine) FOV, better stray light control, the repellent coatings.

But that $50 hike does seem to make it an even race: from rounding down to a $400 bin to rounding up to a $500. I guess marketing saw the Promaster MSRP and though they'ed do that too.

So you makes yer choice and take yer pick. Perhaps a choice people wouldn't think to hard about if that significant (10%) price difference was still there.

Why don't you fly to China with a bag of cash, negotiate a deal, and start selling your own version?

 

[Steve C]

Wanna bet that with the US Bank bailout and with the weakining Euro and seemingly impending European Bank disasters , that price structures on all sorts of stuff goes a little crazy?

 

[pw53]

I would still tell people that the Promaster ELX ED is a bargin at $750. Even if the price has gone up $50 you still have the opportunity to buy the best binocular, in the Promaster and from all appearances the Hawke, that has ever been produced in its price range. How cheap do you want? Yes there's cheaper, but you get what you pay for.

What I am waiting for is to see what the Promaster and Hawke will look like when the decision is made to spend another $250-300 on some further improvements. The alphas will have some serious competition then. They have serious competition from these two $500 glasses now and as yet maybe don't realize it. As yet prospective buyers don't seem to get it either.

I'll post some more later, but after the last few days, my binocular stable has been reduced to the 8x42 Promaster ELX, the 7x36 Swift Eaglet and 6x30 Yosemite. The Fury 6.5x32 would stay if I had not already sold it to my brother. This is from some extreme condition usage observations and not economics.

Steve,

You are right, $50.- isn't that much and no one is saying that the Frontiers aren't worth the extra $$. However, it is quite clear that Hawke reps are following this thread, judging by their replies to various forum member querries/observations. It then logically follows that they were aware that Frank would be posting a review of the Frontiers and yet we did not get a "heads-up" on the impending price increase. It's an issue of business tactics rather than an issue of optical quality. IMHO this is an odd way to break into an already crowded market. Oh, and by the way, I would like to respectfully ask you what we, prospective buyers, are not "getting"?

Paula

 

[Steve C]

pw53,

What I see as a lot of buyers not getting is not so much here. This Promaster/Hawke discussion is going on in other forums as well. So that was a collective comment. In other forums the "made in China" seems to be a big deal. Also there is a lot of decades old training out there that if one is going to get a truly high end binocular, that you simply must buy a most expensive Alpha. This is the sort of knee jerk reaction in other places to these binoculars. Not so much here. My oops. Sorry

 

[mikeyb]

Hawke Frontier PC 8x42's - spelling mistake on box

Hi,

having just bought a pair of Hawke Frontier PC 8x42's online here in the UK I was wondering if the fact that 'waterproof' is spelt wrong on the box, it reads 'watipioof' - is this correct due to simply a spelling mistake in the translation from Chinese perhaps or is it an indication they are copies?

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.

Mike.

 

[Kevin Purcell]

Hi,

having just bought a pair of Hawke Frontier PC 8x42's online here in the UK I was wondering if the fact that 'waterproof' is spelt wrong on the box, it reads 'watipioof' - is this correct due to simply a spelling mistake in the translation from Chinese perhaps or is it an indication they are copies?

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.

Mike.

I doubt they're copies ... I mean if you are going to counterfeit something you counterfeit and Euro 3 bin. Or perhaps that's what they think we're thinking

I have a Hawke Frontier ED box here (FrankD's original that was shipped from the UK) and "waterproof" is spelt correctly everywhere it appears.

It's possible they did a box redesign (odd but possible) that didn't get proofread.

Or that these aren't the Hawke Frontier ED" but the earlier non-ED "Hawke Frontier" model?

Or perhaps someone put them in the wrong box?

On the other hand they do spell "Eye Relief" as "Eye Releif" so my packaging isn't trouble free but that's one that many native English speakers have problems with.

 

[mikeyb]

I doubt they're copies ... I mean if you are going to counterfeit something you counterfeit and Euro 3 bin. Or perhaps that's what they think we're thinking

I have a Hawke Frontier ED box here (FrankD's original that was shipped from the UK) and "waterproof" is spelt correctly everywhere it appears.

It's possible they did a box redesign (odd but possible) that didn't get proofread.

Or that these aren't the Hawke Frontier ED" but the earlier non-ED "Hawke Frontier" model?

Or perhaps someone put them in the wrong box?

On the other hand they do spell "Eye Relief" as "Eye Releif" so my packaging isn't trouble free but that's one that many native English speakers have problems with.

Hi,

thanks for the info these ones are the NON ED versions but are the latest Phase Corrected ones, they are being sold at £60 under the price everyone else sells them at so a decent enough buy IF they are genuine but the spelling and the price has me doubting.

Mike.

 

[pw53]

Folks,

Just to clear things up a bit. I received a nice PM from a woman at Hawke Optics today via this website. Apparently my AOL spam filters were catching their emails. I had four of them waiting from way back into last week. These folks were actually nice enough to "special order" on of the Frontier EDs from their British headquarters. It arrived at their Indiana office today and was immediately sent out to me via UPS. I should have it before the week is over. As was mentioned they haven't received their stock of bins to be sold through the US headquarters but should be getting it shortly.

I am glad everything worked out and I greatly look forward to trying out these bins...by themselves and in comparison to the other models I have on hand. They sent me some really great information and seem to be quite willing to answer any questions we may have for them.

I love to see this type of manufacturer involvement!

Just an update on my experience with Hawke Optics. I ordered the EDs on Oct.5 being under the assumption that I would get them in 3 days which was important because I was about to embark on a roadtrip on Oct.12 thru CA, NV, UT and AZ. Since migration was in full force I was looking forward to bringing the EDs with me. Regretfully this did not happen due to a US Customs snafoo. Amanda @ Hawke and her co-worker Fred did their best to get them to me which eventually happened in the last week of Oct.

The glasses are SUPERB....everything Frank mentioned in his review. I LOVED them eventhough I did finally return them to Hawke because the ergonomics did just not work out eventhough I really tried. A little heavier than I am used to but I probably could have gotten used to that. What I could not get used to was that the bins felt "off-balance" to me. Had to keep re-positioning them because they felt as if gravity pulled on the objective side, causing me to have to readjust the bins constantly. I worked on this with myself because I did not want to return them...I wanted to keep them because they are GREAT glasses, I liked them even better than my SE 8x32 (and that says something). In the end I did return them and was refunded the purchase price and the shipping cost.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank Amanda and Fred @ Hawke Optics for their outstanding customer service. They went out of their way to help me, were courteous and polite and the refund was processed promptly. I am hoping for a 8x32 ED Frontier!!!!!! Thanks Amanda, Thanks Fred.

Paula

 

[Kevin Purcell]

What I could not get used to was that the bins felt "off-balance" to me. Had to keep re-positioning them because they felt as if gravity pulled on the objective side, causing me to have to readjust the bins constantly. I worked on this with myself because I did not want to return them...I wanted to keep them because they are GREAT glasses

I find open-bridge bins take a different grip (that I like) with my right hand at the top of the right barrel with index finger on the focuser (or in the machined curve of the front hinge ... very nice design). And my left hand wrapped around the barrel towards the objective. There is a big enough gap between the barrels for me to do this (though people with smaller than average IPD might have a problem).

I think if you try to hold these bins in a fingertip hold near the eyepiece or even one of the "clamp to your forehead grips" that people used to use on porros you would find the bin too long for that.

BTW, I do also use a similar asymmetric grip on 40mm-ish porros and single hinge roof prisms (the non focusing hand on the end of the objective tube not the prism housing). The biggest problem I find is the nut on the tripod adaptor cover tends to get in the way of my little finger.

But each to their own. If the bin isn't comfortable in the hand it won't be usable in the long term so it must go back.

And yes, I'd love to see a 32mm or 36mm ED

 

[John Cantelo]

I finally caught up with a friend who bought a pair of 8x43 ED Hawke binoculars (on my recommendation) a few weeks back. (I also caught up with a nice male Ferruginous Duck on a local gravel pit, but that's another story). He is as pleased as punch with them and thinks they're the best bins he's ever owned. Mutual friends with 'alpha' bins are less pleased with them for much the same reasons. Unfortunately, the bright sunny conditions made comparison difficult (as all but the worst binoculars look good in such conditions), but my provisional opinion was that there was very little optically between his £250 Hawkes and my Zeiss FLs. Both looked sharp and bright with the Hawke being a little warmer/yellower than the Zeiss (a possible advantage in poor light?). Close focus was better than my FLs. What was obvious, though, was that, for me at least, the Hawkes were ergonomically much nicer to handle. It took me some time to get used to the shape and balance of the FLs, but the Hawke was instantly comfortable and the hands slotted into position without a thought. Easier to hold one handed too. If the optical performance is up to the level that all suggest, I would have found it very difficult to justify buying the FLs had the Hawke been on the market at the time. I'll certainly be tempted to buy one as a spare/travelling pair if a 8x30/32 model appears (but tactically I'll call them a pair for my wife!). One each of Hawke ED 8x32s (if they appear), 8x43 and 10x43 bins would surely be a more flexible response to the demands of birding for less than the cost of a single 'alpha' glass no matter how good,

 

[Nick Tanner]

I bought a pair of Hawke Frontier ED 10x43 on Xmas eve from the London Camera Exchange in the Strand for £279, after being told by a well known optical shop in south London that there were "much better options for the price"; I have never handled a pair of binos that felt so right and my first test was to check the close focus by looking at a poster on the wall behind the counter, pin sharp at just over a metre, I've used them twice on my local patch in east London, on both occasions late in the day and I have to say that the performance of these bins in poor light is phenomenal, the speculum of a preening teal standing out like a beacon in the gloaming, my only gripes are that the neckstrap is too long and a rain guard would be nice rather than a cheap pair of lens covers, in summary if you are looking for a pair of binoculars for less than £300 try the rest then try these, I doubt you will find anything that comes even close

Nick

 

[Kevin Purcell]

a rain guard would be nice rather than a cheap pair of lens covers

Hmmm, my one came with a standard black rubbery flexible rainguard and tethered objective covers. Works fine (and doesn't fall off either!).

And I regard the long "neckstrap" as a feature. You can easily wear these bins sash/bandolier style across a shoulder and save your neck. You can also run flat out with the bins like this without loosing teeth

That said cutting down the strap with a sharp hot knife is easy enough to do (or even a flame to seal the frayed ends).

I'm curious what the "much better options for the price" might have been?

Glad you are enjoying your new bins.

 

[Nick Tanner]

just the limey tendency to find fault I guess, I tried incorparating the " rainguard" into the strap but it kept getting in the way, finally sorted out the strap but still a little too long for my liking, minor niggles; if I had to spend another £20 on making these bins more user friendly it would be money well spent, getting a bit too long in the tooth to be knocked out by a pair of bins whilst chasing a bird, if it was there a minute ago chances are it still will be,
many thanks for putting Hawke on my radar

Nick

 

[FrankD]

I'll certainly be tempted to buy one as a spare/travelling pair if a 8x30/32 model appears (but tactically I'll call them a pair for my wife!).

Now that is a novel suggestion. I might have to take advantage of that strategy!