Help with Falcon ID from Egypt (1 Viewer)

[nologo]

Hi,
Is this a female Red-footed falcon (Falco vespertinus) or something else?
Photos taken in Hurgada (Egypt) on 08 may 2023

 

[Harrybongo]

Hi,
Is this a female Red-footed falcon (Falco vespertinus) or something else?
Photos taken in Hurgada (Egypt) on 08 may 2023

Hi. On pic 7, l can just see some barring on the tail/wings, moustachial stripe etc, looks like red footed? but I'm no expert!

 

[THE_FERN]

It's one of the 2 (red-footed, amur): general shape, face pattern. One image suggested a whitish under wing, other perhaps buffy. I expect one is much more likely than the other, and you can play with the image to be sure about the colour

 

[MacNara]

It's one of the 2 (red-footed, amur): general shape, face pattern. One image suggested a whitish under wing, other perhaps buffy. I expect one is much more likely than the other, and you can play with the image to be sure about the colour

Well, here are three played-with images.

I can't get any of these to correspond to any possible wing and chest colourations of Amur or Red-footed - no chest streaking; no dark underwing; the chest doesn't seem anything like rufous enough for female Red-footed.

I can't see that the legs are definitely red in these not-great-quality photos.

Birds of the World has neither of these in Egypt (though Red-footed at least should pass through on migration).

Why is it not something more likely such as adult Lanner? Or maybe there is something else possible in Egypt?

 

[Butty]

Looks fine for adult female red-foot. From photos, they're quite often as pale as this. Pattern and colours look wrong for Amur falcon - and lanner.

 

[MacNara]

Looks fine for adult female red-foot. From photos, they're quite often as pale as this. Pattern and colours look wrong for Amur falcon - and lanner.

Can you link to some photos of adult female Red-foot that look like this? I also did a search and couldn't find any this pale. Either the breast would be much more russet, or the underwing would have a different and much stronger pattern.

I based my Lanner comment on Birds of East Africa along with some slight personal observation.

 

[THE_FERN]

Can you link to some photos of adult female Red-foot that look like this? I also did a search and couldn't find any this pale. Either the breast would be much more russet, or the underwing would have a different and much stronger pattern.

I based my Lanner comment on Birds of East Africa along with some slight personal observation.

Lanner should have a different shape and doesn't have the (for me) characteristic strongly white cheek. Happy to believe it's red-footed.

Slightly surprised if amur hasn't been recorded in Egypt---main migration will be further east, but they've been seen in UK...

 

[tconzemi]

Red-footed Falcon (Key Facts To Know)

The Red-footed Falcon is an agile small falcon species that feeds primarily on insects, and breeds in the eastern part of Europe.

europeanraptors.org

I don't see a problem for female Red-footed, heavily lit from below by desert sand reflection

 

[MacNara]

I don't see a problem for female Red-footed, heavily lit from below by desert sand reflection

If you are happy with this, then that's fine by me.

I'm not sure about the 'desert sand heavy reflection' because the photos are taken against a bright blue sky (so should be darker underneath, I think) - and Hurgada is on the Red Sea so whether it was desert reflection or not is moot. But I thought the opposite just on looking at the photos - in that for me the pale colouring was 'real', and the slight reddish colouring in a couple of the photos was a 'reflection'. But photo 4292 perhaps looks reasonable for Red-footed female.

The Fern: I didn't say that Amur hasn't been recorded in Egypt, but that Cornell's Birds of the World has neither Amur or Red-footed on their map for Egypt (the maps for these species don't seem to include migration zones).

And Lanner was just a suggestion for something else it might be and which definitely is in the region. I don't know if there are other possibilities.

If it was a 'first' for me, I don't know what I would decide from these photos.

 

[Butty]

...the slight reddish colouring in a couple of the photos was a 'reflection'

Not so, as there is clear contrast between a) rufous underwing-coverts and chest/belly and b) non-rufous remainder of underside.

 

[MacNara]

Not so, as there is clear contrast between a) rufous underwing-coverts and chest/belly and b) non-rufous remainder of underside.

As I said - point me to a photo where this is the case.

In #4 I tried to adjust the photos to get a clearer view, but all I could get is pale and less contrast.

So - choose one or two photos, adjust them as you wish (but explain what you've done), and demonstrate your point.

I don't have any great feeling for or against the Red-footed ID; just I'm not clear how you get there with certainty from these photos - indeed, I would be much more open to an argument based on shape than on colouration.

 

[Bismarck Honeyeater]

I’m surprised no one’s suggested Eleonora’s Falcon, pretty variable and could fit the pictures in the original post.

The only other Falcons in the area and not so far mentioned would be; Barbary, Peregrine, Saker, Sooty, Hobby, Merlin and both Kestrels. I suspect it’s none of those.

 

[Butty]

point me to a photo where this is the case

Apologies - I meant to include that. Pic 7.

 

[MacNara]

Apologies - I meant to include that. Pic 7.

And as I said picture 8 (4292) seemed closest to me (and picture 7 would be next).

I'm not saying it isn't Red-footed; just that I can't see clearly why it is from these photos. I'm perfectly happy if others agree that it is, and I will fall in line.

 

[THE_FERN]

I’m surprised no one’s suggested Eleonora’s Falcon, pretty variable and could fit the pictures in the original post.

The only other Falcons in the area and not so far mentioned would be; Barbary, Peregrine, Saker, Sooty, Hobby, Merlin and both Kestrels. I suspect it’s none of those.

Isn't shape wrong for eleanora's?