How many of the potential raptor species for the U.K have people seen? (1 Viewer)

[Andy Lakin]

Not trawled through the literature to see if there any historic records that nobody alive today could have seen. If impossible to get a full set who is the closest? Also what effort was involved for those with a decent tally? Also what additional species are possible especially with increased records of rare raptors in Western Europe?
Cheers
Andy

 

[Patudo]

On the subject of historic records, what does our esteemed readership think of the claims of American goshawk (now considered a separate species of course) in Ireland and Scotland? (link)

 

[JWN Andrewes]

I don't think more than a couple of people saw the Shetland Long-legged Buzzard, so that might be the pinch point, unless there's been a second.

 

[Phil Andrews]

In recent years Short-toed Eagle and Eleonora's Falcon have been unlocked, whilst many will have seen Lesser Kestrel, Black-winged Kite and Northern Harrier. Which leaves:

• The aforementioned Long-legged Buzzard
• Amur Falcon (the misidentified Yorkshire bird and the afternoon Cornwall bird)
• Greater Spotted Eagle (last record 1916)
• American Kestrel (two records from 1976)

Never sure whether vultures count as raptors?

 

[dwatsonbirder]

(Including vutures and falcons) here are some obvious choices with potential to (re)appear in the UK in the fullness of time:

• Great spotted eagle
• Rough-legged hawk
• Eastern Imperial eagle
• Griffon vulture
• Saker

Tenuous but possible:

• Ruppell's vulture
• Sharp-shinned Hawk
• Lesser Spotted Eagle
• Bonelli's eagle
• Eastern Marsh Harrier
• Swainson's Hawk

If you don't already have it, this book is essential for anyone with an interest in vagrancy, and will answer a lot a questions...

 

[Patudo]

I have doubts over F. cherrug (except as falconers' escapes) - the species is in trouble in E Europe, by far the most likely area for vagrants to appear from. Bonelli's - wouldn't one have showed up over the last couple centuries when they were more common than they are now? Griffon is possible, I guess, given that Egyptian vulture and lammergeier (regardless of provenance) have already showed up. I think any of the American buteos, unless ship assisted, are very unlikely - just not the right shape for crossing the Atlantic. Now, about those American goshawks...

 

[Farnboro John]

I have doubts over F. cherrug (except as falconers' escapes) - the species is in trouble in E Europe, by far the most likely area for vagrants to appear from. Bonelli's - wouldn't one have showed up over the last couple centuries when they were more common than they are now? Griffon is possible, I guess, given that Egyptian vulture and lammergeier (regardless of provenance) have already showed up. I think any of the American buteos, unless ship assisted, are very unlikely - just not the right shape for crossing the Atlantic. Now, about those American goshawks...

But Northern Harriers are? There's more than one way of skinning a cat.....

John

 

[dwatsonbirder]

I have doubts over F. cherrug (except as falconers' escapes) - the species is in trouble in E Europe, by far the most likely area for vagrants to appear from. Bonelli's - wouldn't one have showed up over the last couple centuries when they were more common than they are now? Griffon is possible, I guess, given that Egyptian vulture and lammergeier (regardless of provenance) have already showed up. I think any of the American buteos, unless ship assisted, are very unlikely - just not the right shape for crossing the Atlantic. Now, about those American goshawks...

Some links;

French Bonelli's Eagles wander north

One of the satellite-tagged birds recently came very close to entering British airspace, while another reached northern Denmark.

www.birdguides.com

Saker, last 10 years:


Sharp-shinned Hawk, Bermuda: https://ebird.org/checklist/S21373991

A Rough-legged Hawk on Corvo, Azores, October 2013

Josh Jones discusses a dark-morph Rough-legged Hawk on Corvo and looks at previous Western Palearctic occurrences of this Nearctic subspecies.

www.birdguides.com

 

[JWN Andrewes]

Anyone taking a punt on Mississippi Kite?

 

[JWN Andrewes]

Given some of the wildly unexpected birds that seem to be able to make it here how about -

Eastern Honey Buzzard
Pallas's Fish-Eagle
Pied Harrier
Japanese Sparrowhawk
Grey-faced Buzzard
Broad-winged Hawk
Steppe Eagle
Sooty Falcon

None likely, but all possible?

 

[01101001]

Pallas's Fish-Eagle

One recently in Belarus:

https://tarsiger.com/news/index.php?sp=find&lang=eng&species=9630&sel=1&place=&country=&day=0&month=0&year=0&find_button=Search

 

[Andy Adcock]

But Northern Harriers are? There's more than one way of skinning a cat.....

John

I think that given the right weather, if a bird is in a place to get swept up in one of the intense, American storms, almost anything could get swept across the Atlantic, Bald Eagle anyone?

 

[Andy Lakin]

Thanks for the replies, I hadn't realised there have been quite a few very tricky birds to connect with.

 

[Stephen Dunstan]

I have doubts over F. cherrug (except as falconers' escapes) - the species is in trouble in E Europe, by far the most likely area for vagrants to appear from.

This is true, but there are records in the UK from when falconers' escapes were arguably less of an issue and when the species was in less trouble in Eastern Europe. They were also on remote islands.

 

[tonyfenn]

Does black eared kite (Lincolnshire and Norfolk) count as a separate species?

 

[Phil Andrews]

Does black eared kite (Lincolnshire and Norfolk) count as a separate species?

No, subspecies of Black Kite

 

[Patudo]

But Northern Harriers are?

Buteos are so dependent on thermals - as we all know, the well-known choke points really act as bottlenecks for these and similar species. Harriers funnel through the same places, of course, but whenever I've seen them they have always seemed to have a more effortless flight. I'd hate to be either in that situation, but if I had to attempt an Atlantic crossing as one, I'd rather be a harrier.

This is true, but there are records in the UK from when falconers' escapes were arguably less of an issue and when the species was in less trouble in Eastern Europe. They were also on remote islands.

Be interesting to know more - in the latter case (on remote islands) could F. rusticolus be ruled out?

Bald Eagle anyone?

I can recall the 1987 Irish bird making the news; apparently there was another in 1973. Does anyone know how definite were the IDs on both those?

I suppose given that a couple of lammergeiers have made it across, a black/cinerous vulture might at some point.

Is "rough-legged hawk" distinguishable (unless dark morph) from rough-legged buzzard in the field?

 

[Stephen Dunstan]

Be interesting to know more - in the latter case (on remote islands) could F. rusticolus be ruled out?

Brit-ish Birds - Saker Falcon

 

[Phil Andrews]

Buteos are so dependent on thermals - as we all know, the well-known choke points really act as bottlenecks for these and similar species. Harriers funnel through the same places, of course, but whenever I've seen them they have always seemed to have a more effortless flight. I'd hate to be either in that situation, but if I had to attempt an Atlantic crossing as one, I'd rather be a harrier.


Be interesting to know more - in the latter case (on remote islands) could F. rusticolus be ruled out?


I can recall the 1987 Irish bird making the news; apparently there was another in 1973. Does anyone know how definite were the IDs on both those?

I suppose given that a couple of lammergeiers have made it across, a black/cinerous vulture might at some point.

Is "rough-legged hawk" distinguishable (unless dark morph) from rough-legged buzzard in the field?

Rock solid in both cases - the 1973 bird was shot whilst the 1987 was captured exhausted.

 

[Farnboro John]

Buteos are so dependent on thermals - as we all know, the well-known choke points really act as bottlenecks for these and similar species. Harriers funnel through the same places, of course, but whenever I've seen them they have always seemed to have a more effortless flight. I'd hate to be either in that situation, but if I had to attempt an Atlantic crossing as one, I'd rather be a harrier.


Be interesting to know more - in the latter case (on remote islands) could F. rusticolus be ruled out?


I can recall the 1987 Irish bird making the news; apparently there was another in 1973. Does anyone know how definite were the IDs on both those?

I suppose given that a couple of lammergeiers have made it across, a black/cinerous vulture might at some point.

Is "rough-legged hawk" distinguishable (unless dark morph) from rough-legged buzzard in the field?

I think there's a basic misunderstanding of raptor flight in that Buteos don't sit on the ground on cloudy days in winter (for instance) for lack of thermals and American warblers don't actively fly the Atlantic they get blown across on air currents moving very fast indeed: air currents more than capable of being exploited by raptors. A more significant factor is whether or not the birds migrate somewhere likely to get them caught up in a fast-moving system and there I have no basis on which to speculate except to note the Irish Bald Eagles which suggest it would be unwise to rule out anything.

So far as European vultures go, currently we have past records of Egyptian Vulture, Black Vulture, Griffon Vulture and Lammergeier that demonstrate in some cases the certainty of capability and in others a debate over the actual individuals that might repay revisiting. But all of them are clearly capable, as are Booted Eagles.

In recent years the satellite tagging of Sakers has demonstrated juvenile wanderings that have included many parts of Western Europe so that it is clear that they could not be ruled out as visitors to Britain on inability or disinclination to come this far.

The level of proof required for a first is really a higher barrier than the ability to get here.

John