Hybrid Goose (4 Viewers)

[kenw70]

I would like to know what type of hybrid goose this is that I saw at Cherry Creek State Park in Aurora, Colorado. It was with both Cackling and Canada Geese. Sometimes it would be laying on the ice napping and sometimes it would get up. There was a Bald Eagle in the area which may have woken it up and the other geese. Is this a Graylag Goose x Canada Goose or possibly a Greater White-Fronted Goose x Canada Goose.

 

[birdmeister]

I'd say there isn't an obvious feature to suggest domestic influence in this bird (bulging rear, etc). I think Greater White-fronted Goose (GWFG) is one of the parents. The other one is puzzling. To me, the first image showing the goose in alert posture shows a small, rounded head and short neck. I wonder if this could be GWFG x Cackling Goose? Otherwise, I think Canada would be the other parent. I don't have enough expertise to really say for sure, but it's an interesting bird!

 

[kenw70]

I'd say there isn't an obvious feature to suggest domestic influence in this bird (bulging rear, etc). I think Greater White-fronted Goose (GWFG) is one of the parents. The other one is puzzling. To me, the first image showing the goose in alert posture shows a small, rounded head and short neck. I wonder if this could be GWFG x Cackling Goose? Otherwise, I think Canada would be the other parent. I don't have enough expertise to really say for sure, but it's an interesting bird!

Thank you. I was wondering the same thing, if it could be a GWFG x Cackling Goose. I had not seen a GWFG hybrid of any kind previously til that day.

 

[01101001]

Hello, a belated welcome to BirdForum! If you resize your photos to max 4000 length, the thumbnails will show and your photos will open in the same card. Cheers

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

I think it is certainly a Greater whitefront hybrid . The bright orange legs together with the slenderbilled head shape with a high front fit well to both GWFG x Canada or GWFG x Cackling. The white at the base of the bill is something that you also see in other hybrids, even some where neither parent shows that, e.g. Canada x Greylag ).

To me the bill looks ratherr long for many GWFG x Cackling , so perhaps more likely GWFG x Canada?

But I am not 100% sure concerning Canada or Cackling involvement , I always need time to identify subspecies of those ... so what is the bird standing beside the hybrid in the 3rd photo? a Canada of which subspecies?

 

[kenw70]

I'd say there isn't an obvious feature to suggest domestic influence in this bird (bulging rear, etc). I think Greater White-fronted Goose (GWFG) is one of the parents. The other one is puzzling. To me, the first image showing the goose in alert posture shows a small, rounded head and short neck. I wonder if this could be GWFG x Cackling Goose? Otherwise, I think Canada would be the other parent. I don't have enough expertise to really say for sure, but it's an interesting bird!

I verified through a hybrid bird facebook page that this bird is a GWFG x Cackling Goose. You are correct. Thank you.

 

[kenw70]

I think it is certainly a Greater whitefront hybrid . The bright orange legs together with the slenderbilled head shape with a high front fit well to both GWFG x Canada or GWFG x Cackling. The white at the base of the bill is something that you also see in other hybrids, even some where neither parent shows that, e.g. Canada x Greylag ).

To me the bill looks ratherr long for many GWFG x Cackling , so perhaps more likely GWFG x Canada?

But I am not 100% sure concerning Canada or Cackling involvement , I always need time to identify subspecies of those ... so what is the bird standing beside the hybrid in the 3rd photo? a Canada of which subspecies?

I just confirmed through a hybrid bird facebook group that this is a GWFG x Cackling hybrid. It is a Cackling goose next to the hybrid. Cackling Geese are common in Colorado in the winter time. We get thousands of them.

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

I just confirmed through a hybrid bird facebook group that this is a GWFG x Cackling hybrid. It is a Cackling goose next to the hybrid. Cackling Geese are common in Colorado in the winter time. We get thousands of them.

So I would like you to tell me which subspecies of cackling you think it is?

Also concerning your Hybrid: Please see here a substantial number of photos of GWFG x Cackling goose, thanks to Dave Appleton, Cathy Sheeter, Steve Mlodinow:

Greater White-fronted Goose x Cackling Goose

Greater White-fronted Goose x Cackling Goose (possibly Taverner's Cackling Goose, race taverneri ) hybrid, Aurora (Colorado, USA), 8th De...

birdhybrids.blogspot.com

and a few probable GWFG x Canada

Greater White-fronted Goose x Canada Goose

Greater White-fronted Goose x Canada Goose hybrid, location not given (probably Colorado, USA), 25th December 2013 - copyright Cathy Shee...

birdhybrids.blogspot.com

I don´t think it is so clearcut and easy (I have been interested in ID of hybrid birds for 30 years now), but there will always be things I do not know yet
...and therefore I would like to learn about that Facebook guys reasoning why Cackling x GWFG?

 

[kenw70]

So I would like you to tell me which subspecies of cackling you think it is?

Also concerning your Hybrid: Please see here a substantial number of photos of GWFG x Cackling goose, thanks to Dave Appleton, Cathy Sheeter, Steve Mlodinow:

Greater White-fronted Goose x Cackling Goose

Greater White-fronted Goose x Cackling Goose (possibly Taverner's Cackling Goose, race taverneri ) hybrid, Aurora (Colorado, USA), 8th De...

birdhybrids.blogspot.com

and a few probable GWFG x Canada

Greater White-fronted Goose x Canada Goose

Greater White-fronted Goose x Canada Goose hybrid, location not given (probably Colorado, USA), 25th December 2013 - copyright Cathy Shee...

birdhybrids.blogspot.com

I don´t think it is so clearcut and easy (I have been interested in ID of hybrid birds for 30 years now), but there will always be things I do not know yet
...and therefore I would like to learn about that Facebook guys reasoning why Cackling x GWFG?

Unfortunately, I am not very familiar with hybrid birds or subspecies of birds. The cackling goose next to the hybrid is much smaller than the Canada Geese that were there and much smaller bill. The birders in the Bird Hybrids of North America facebook group are much more experienced with hybrid birds and birds in general. If you use Facebook, I would recommend joining that group. One response was proportions were too small for Canada Goose. Also Steve M commented that this was a GWFG x Cackling as they seem more delicate and in Colorado they are 2-3x as common as GWFG x Canada.

 

[01101001]

the default subspecies seems to be moffitti (with a small probability of maxima)

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

the default subspecies seems to be moffitti (with a small probability of maxima)

??? But moffitti and maxima are canada goose subspecies while kenw70 said the bird left of the hybrid is a cackling goose- or did I misunderstand something?

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

Unfortunately, I am not very familiar with hybrid birds or subspecies of birds. The cackling goose next to the hybrid is much smaller than the Canada Geese that were there and much smaller bill. The birders in the Bird Hybrids of North America facebook group are much more experienced with hybrid birds and birds in general. If you use Facebook, I would recommend joining that group. One response was proportions were too small for Canada Goose. Also Steve M commented that this was a GWFG x Cackling as they seem more delicate and in Colorado they are 2-3x as common as GWFG x Canada.

I am not at Facebook but I know Steve and can ask him directly- if we are speaking of the same Steve, which I think we do...if yes, he is more experienced with that specific hybrid (cackling x gwfg) than I am ... I will ask him to explain and come back with his answer...

 

[01101001]

It was with both Cackling and Canada Geese.

is what I meant, apologies.

Richardson's is supposed to be the default subspecies of Cackling Goose in Colorado; all other subspecies winter to the west of the Rockies.

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

is what I meant, apologies.

Richardson's is supposed to be the default subspecies of Cackling Goose in Colorado; all other subspecies winter to the west of the Rockies.

ah ok thanks for explanation!

 

[kenw70]

I am not at Facebook but I know Steve and can ask him directly- if we are speaking of the same Steve, which I think we do...if yes, he is more experienced with that specific hybrid (cackling x gwfg) than I am ... I will ask him to explain and come back with his answer...

This is definitely the most beautiful hybrid goose that I have seen so far.

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

I got an answer from Steve, saying in short :

"The bird had had a dinky, albeit slim, bill, which is pretty typical of CACG X GWFG. He also said the bird was barely larger than a Cackling."

He also identified the cackling goose as a Richardsons.

In this context and considering Steves much greater experience with that specific cross , I am happy that it is within the variation of Cackling Goose x Greater White-Fronted Goose and the mystery seems solved to me and my questions answered.

 

[kenw70]

I got an answer from Steve, saying in short :

"The bird had had a dinky, albeit slim, bill, which is pretty typical of CACG X GWFG. He also said the bird was barely larger than a Cackling."

He also identified the cackling goose as a Richardsons.

In this context and considering Steves much greater experience with that specific cross , I am happy that it is within the variation of Cackling Goose x Greater White-Fronted Goose and the mystery seems solved to me and my questions answered.

Thank you Joern for the explanation from Steve. Great to know for future sightings.