Improving my iNaturalist Identifications (1 Viewer)

[WPASA]

Hola! G'day and hey y'all!





I mean this with all do respect to the experts, power users, enthusiasts, ect.. that do utilize iNat productively, I'm not trying to be overly critical, but I'll admit I'm certainly an idealist..

Do you all have any tips or techniques for increasing the "visibility" of your observations (specifically birds) in order to more effectively find and confirm species identities?

I feel like I am doing something wrong, or posting my observations incorrectly.

I upload about an average of about 20-30 unique observations a week, I have observed that many of my observations continously lack ID or any contribution from other members, regardless of species scarcity, ect.

I think it seems that if I don't post intentionally broad descriptions, as simple as Class: Aves, I receive little to no input or confirmation for many of my observations, especially birds..

is this just normal selection bias, or is there something I can do to improve the frequency of contributions to my observations by other users or experts?

Also it seems like less than 10 people in SA regularly have any involvement with observations in Latin America, few to none of them from this country (Ecuador), and the contributors I experience have no connection or even a single observation outside of their respective states..


Sorry if this is confusing, I utilize iNaturalist.org nearly exclusively for archiving my species' and for assistance with IDs.. we spend a lot of time in the field, but I rarely have more than a few moments with individual specimens to take a photo, let alone ask for opinions on ID, I am regularly birding alone more often..

or is there a better online community I can utilize that is more bird-centric? I know "citizen naturalist" observations are not of tremendous value, however I would like my work to end up in the best of hands (outside of projects in country)

I'm just kindof disappointed to spend hours editing photos only to have little to no contribution whatsoever, while someone can take a picture of cockroach in their kitchen and will receive immediate confirmation and contributions...


por favor, digame (tell me)

 

[Jim M.]

or is there a better online community I can utilize that is more bird-centric? I know "citizen naturalist" observations are not of tremendous value, however I would like my work to end up in the best of hands (outside of projects in country)

Hi,

eBird is the primary portal to submit citizen science bird observations, especially in the western hemisphere. It allows you to submit complete checklists, which indicate both presence and absence of species. iNat is great for everything else, i.e. except for birds.

Jim

 

[BlessedByBirds]

Hola! G'day and hey y'all!





I mean this with all do respect to the experts, power users, enthusiasts, ect.. that do utilize iNat productively, I'm not trying to be overly critical, but I'll admit I'm certainly an idealist..

Do you all have any tips or techniques for increasing the "visibility" of your observations (specifically birds) in order to more effectively find and confirm species identities?

I feel like I am doing something wrong, or posting my observations incorrectly.

I upload about an average of about 20-30 unique observations a week, I have observed that many of my observations continously lack ID or any contribution from other members, regardless of species scarcity, ect.

I think it seems that if I don't post intentionally broad descriptions, as simple as Class: Aves, I receive little to no input or confirmation for many of my observations, especially birds..

is this just normal selection bias, or is there something I can do to improve the frequency of contributions to my observations by other users or experts?

Also it seems like less than 10 people in SA regularly have any involvement with observations in Latin America, few to none of them from this country (Ecuador), and the contributors I experience have no connection or even a single observation outside of their respective states..


Sorry if this is confusing, I utilize iNaturalist.org nearly exclusively for archiving my species' and for assistance with IDs.. we spend a lot of time in the field, but I rarely have more than a few moments with individual specimens to take a photo, let alone ask for opinions on ID, I am regularly birding alone more often..

or is there a better online community I can utilize that is more bird-centric? I know "citizen naturalist" observations are not of tremendous value, however I would like my work to end up in the best of hands (outside of projects in country)

I'm just kindof disappointed to spend hours editing photos only to have little to no contribution whatsoever, while someone can take a picture of cockroach in their kitchen and will receive immediate confirmation and contributions...


por favor, digame (tell me)

Hi; this is Lisa again from Portoviejo. Yes, eBird is what most of my birding friends use, but if you're stumped for identification, you put that one to the side and hope that someone can help. iNaturalist is good when others have time to help with identifications, or if you're at a bird-friendly hotel/hostal, they will surely help you a lot.

In my own evolution of bird identification, I enjoy pouring over the various field guides and reference books, checking online images (again via eBird for a specific area) and gain a much-stronger knowledge about many species. Only when I cannot figure it out - and a week or so goes by - do I bother my friends with more experience. A recent 'I hate to bother you' moment is now branded in memory - when my friend replied, 'Congratulations; it's a Blackpoll Warbler - first ever recorded in Manabi - in fact in SW Ecuador.' Yahoo!

Those who use smartphones are almost all users of the eBird/Merlin apps, which are very helpful, even with checklists: New integrated features in eBird Mobile and Merlin Bird ID - eBird

I try to photograph every bird as backup, then when at home peruse the photos to confirm that is what I saw. For instance, there is a Black and White Tanager (which I have heard but never seen) - and I might easily mistake it for a Variable Seedeater from afar. But learning the subtle differences and the audio - is a joy, like piecing together a puzzle.

So.. if you haven't - sign up for eBird and upload your first checklist from Manabi!

 

[opisska]

So do you post the observations with species IDs? I generally find that too broad IDs are not good as many people watch only specific taxa to ID. Specifically for birds in South America, I always get IDs, people lika Isueza are relentless. Really don't understand what is happening to you if you don't get IDs.

Ebird is great for recording, but it's enthusiastically NOT a platform to get IDs from photos.

 

[BlessedByBirds]

I try to always respect the professionalism on eBird - if there is any question, I omit that bird and place the image in a folder on the computer until I can return/observe/ask someone who is more familiar with the local birds. When I share observations on iNaturalist, sometimes it is to document a specific species, like an endangered plant of the area - or a not-too-common bird.. but otherwise iNaturalist has been really helpful in steering me to correct identifications. It automatically tosses up suggestions, if I have no idea what it might be, and then I start searching/ruling out until I can get as close as possible. One plant that I well remember sending me down that research queue was a wild vine/Cissus in the grape family. Where I live there are a few people that must specialize in studying the flora of the area, so several are almost always fast to help. It's amazing the great people who are helping others - even with identifications...

 

[pbjosh]

we spend a lot of time in the field, but I rarely have more than a few moments with individual specimens to take a photo, let alone ask for opinions on ID, I am regularly birding alone more often..

I'm just kindof disappointed to spend hours editing photos only to have little to no contribution whatsoever, while someone can take a picture of cockroach in their kitchen and will receive immediate confirmation and contributions...

por favor, digame (tell me)

If you spend a lot of time in the field and a lot of time editing photos perhaps you might find the experience more enriching if you use a field guide and start to ID the birds yourself, rather than wait for / expect others to do so? If I understand your post correctly, you're photographing a lot of birds, then editing the photos, then uploading to iNat without even any ID suggestions / classification, and expecting the public to ID all your birds for you?

 

[Butty]

I sense this is not a message that you wish to hear, but . . . If your prime goal is to learn to identify birds (rather than primarily to get photographs of them), there really is no substitute for spending lots and lots of time in the field just watching - with binoculars - and frequent reference to field guide. And then to follow that up by spending lots more time at home just reading field guides and other literature. No harm in having someone to give you an occasional nudge in the right direction, but you really need to do the vast majority of it yourself. Taking photographs is a useful adjunct - no more. And the act of photographing certainly gets in the way of watching birds.

 

[opisska]

I mostly observe birds by watching them through camera or on my camera screen. The binocular way is not mystically superior. What us true is that IDing yourself is extremely rewarding.

 

[Butty]

The binocular way is not mystically superior.

I'm afraid it is.

 

[pbjosh]

@opisska @Butty - it really depends on the situation. In a rain forest a camera is a real pain in the ass and the binoculars are worlds better. For waders it's probably a draw but a camera lets you photograph hard / interesting birds to ID later on a larger screen. In the desert it's probably a wash. For seabirds in flight, a camera can be crucial to being able to ID.

I personally find binoculars easier and more enjoyable. I also find that I learn more about birds and behavior when watching through a bin than a camera. I almost never carry a camera any more, which results in a few rarities / interesting things that get away without photo proof (and sometimes without ID) but c'est la vie. I do, though, always carry a camera on pelagic trips. Critical there! I should carry a camera when birding migration but even then I just prefer observing to toting the stupid camera around all day and frequently leave it behind...

 

[opisska]

I'm afraid it is.

Well that's just your opinion. I repeatedly see people here presenting taking photographs as something inferior, completely unfounded. It's just a different means of seeing the same things. Yes, people who are focused solely on getting "great" photos often tend to focus more on the photos, but that's just some people. I strongly disagree with the statement that one has to look through the binoculars to learn to ID birds. I haven't even owned binoculars for most of my time birding, yet many people come to me over and over for ID advice. For me, taking photos is amazing for learning to ID - i take a lot of shots of each bird, they are often distant, not great as photos, but I focus on getting as much ID marks on them as possible and then study those, confronting with all possible sources of knowledge - and, unlike the binocular crowd, I have endless time to do so in depth, because the photo is not flying away the next second.

 

[Jim M.]

WPASA,

My suggestion. When out birding, try to ID all the birds you can using field guides, etc. If you are uncertain, post photos of your problem birds once you get back home--this forum is as good a place as any to get IDs. (Or see what iNat's computer vision or similar apps suggest and then go back to your guides to verify.) Once you have ID'd all the birds you can, submit a checklist of those birds to eBird, including photos as you see fit.

Jim

 

[Steve Babbs]

Well that's just your opinion. I repeatedly see people here presenting taking photographs as something inferior, completely unfounded. It's just a different means of seeing the same things. Yes, people who are focused solely on getting "great" photos often tend to focus more on the photos, but that's just some people. I strongly disagree with the statement that one has to look through the binoculars to learn to ID birds. I haven't even owned binoculars for most of my time birding, yet many people come to me over and over for ID advice. For me, taking photos is amazing for learning to ID - i take a lot of shots of each bird, they are often distant, not great as photos, but I focus on getting as much ID marks on them as possible and then study those, confronting with all possible sources of knowledge - and, unlike the binocular crowd, I have endless time to do so in depth, because the photo is not flying away the next second.

By the 'binocular crowd' you mean birders/birdwatchers.

 

[BlessedByBirds]

To my new circle of friends and kindred spirits. This is an interesting queue of feedback about using cameras or binoculars to aid in study and enjoyment of bird watching. I am an artist who grew up roaming the woods, fields, lakes and 'the' river in the Mississippi Delta. I never aspired or even knew of opportunities to be a botanical illustrator or naturalist - classrooms were my least favorite place to be!--- I wanted to be 'out there' in settings some of you have just described. Fast forward to the present, and this morning when awakening, my first thought was, 'Binoculars. I should share with the forum my challenge with binoculars - and also aphantasia.'

Back in 1995/6, I drank a lot of instant tea that was sweetened with aspartame, and became a 'canary,' with visual problems that happened as a result of consuming aspartame. Connecting the dots between aspartame and visual problems did not happen fast. Diplopia- Double vision would hit with no warning and linger for half a minute or longer, and then fade away. Diagnosis was difficult - perhaps MS or Myasthenia - maybe a tumor, maybe diabetes, or migraines or maybe an aneurysm ticking in my brain... I stopped consuming anything artificial, since I was sensitive to MSG, and as mysteriously as the symptoms started, they went away. Fast forward five years, and I 'forgot' and began mixing an aspartame-sweetened powdered lemon drink with real lemons --- and this time I lost my vision for about 24 hours. After another week of medical tests that left specialists scratching their heads, the feedback was, 'We don't know why you lost your vision but you are really lucky to have gotten it back.' Back home, I looked at that drink mix, and the connection 'clicked,' and by that time there was a lot of new information about the dangers of aspartame. When I I absently accept a drink or accept some food item without checking the ingredients, my eyes get that funny feeling - it seems to be a true poison to my body.

So what does this has to do with birding and binoculars? Although with corrective lenses, I see really well, when using binoculars my eyes will no longer align the image. Just like when I would see double, I can close one eye and see well - or the other - but no matter how I tweak/adjust the binoculars, my eyes just won't/can't coordinate a clear image. Most likely a monocular would be perfect and much handier to use where I live in Ecuador, but until I am in the USA again, testing one is not an easy option here.

My camera has become my binoculars, and over the years there are times when a birding friend with binoculars - as we are watching a rare bird - will ask, 'Did you get it?' and once a friend nudged, 'Get a picture of its tail - its tail....' (Black-billed Cuckoo, which is not often seen in Manabi Province.)

Now for the new word, which I stumbled upon a year ago: Aphantasia, the inability to see anything in your mind's eye. For those of you who are reading, close your eyes and picture a pair of binoculars on a sandy beach. Or a bright red Cardinal or Tanager on a lone branch against a blue sky. Or, as the example many use, picture a red apple on a white plate. I close my eyes and see nothing. I always thought that 'mind's eye' was a figment of speech. If you're curious, I wrote about it HERE.

For me, having a photo backup helps in so many ways; for reference in my studies, in order to study the bird after I'm home again - as I see the bird, note its behavior and quirks. If I turn away, the image clicks off as if I turned off the television. I make a zillion notations in silent verbal notations/narrative to better recall, or else it will vanish. I am now somewhat envious of any of you who can retain those images in your mind's eyes (minds' eyes?) There are many times when my camera is at my side, and the joy of just watching the birds depends on my natural vision. But to better study any bird, my camera is the extension of my eyes - and if needed there is an instant to take a photo before a mystery bird flies away, like when the Blackpoll Warbler perched for about half a minute then soared back out of my life.

So that's all for this epistle; I have a date with a Common Potoo, so am signing off until tonight! (Those studies are with pencil in hand, eyes on the bird and vines and limbs, and with camera by my side...) Happy birding everyone!
Lisa

 

[WPASA]

To all: I appreciate any and all contributions to this conversation.

I'm really not going to carry on about this, or name names, but I will not tolerate for a second, condescension, sarcasm, disrespect or bigotry of any kind whatsoever.

I will say this once, if you are going to contribution to anything I submit, don't be a jerk.

I am generally a very reasonable and kind person, but I will not tolerate disrespect and cynicism at all.

 

[WPASA]

I didn't even address any of the numerous, thoughtful contributions submitted to this conversation as I am so disappointed with the amount of sarcasm and general divisiveness I have seen here.

 

[WPASA]

So do you post the observations with species IDs? I generally find that too broad IDs are not good as many people watch only specific taxa to ID. Specifically for birds in South America, I always get IDs, people lika Isueza are relentless. Really don't understand what is happening to you if you don't get IDs.

Ebird is great for recording, but it's enthusiastically NOT a platform to get IDs from photos.

Lsueza is from Sao Paolo and is an unpublished amateur naturalist.

I am working exclusively in Latin America, not Brasil and am asking for advice for putting my observations into the right hands, not simply someone tinder swiping countless bird IDs from places they have never visited.

To my new circle of friends and kindred spirits. This is an interesting queue of feedback about using cameras or binoculars to aid in study and enjoyment of bird watching. I am an artist who grew up roaming the woods, fields, lakes and 'the' river in the Mississippi Delta. I never aspired or even knew of opportunities to be a botanical illustrator or naturalist - classrooms were my least favorite place to be!--- I wanted to be 'out there' in settings some of you have just described. Fast forward to the present, and this morning when awakening, my first thought was, 'Binoculars. I should share with the forum my challenge with binoculars - and also aphantasia.'

Back in 1995/6, I drank a lot of instant tea that was sweetened with aspartame, and became a 'canary,' with visual problems that happened as a result of consuming aspartame. Connecting the dots between aspartame and visual problems did not happen fast. Diplopia- Double vision would hit with no warning and linger for half a minute or longer, and then fade away. Diagnosis was difficult - perhaps MS or Myasthenia - maybe a tumor, maybe diabetes, or migraines or maybe an aneurysm ticking in my brain... I stopped consuming anything artificial, since I was sensitive to MSG, and as mysteriously as the symptoms started, they went away. Fast forward five years, and I 'forgot' and began mixing an aspartame-sweetened powdered lemon drink with real lemons --- and this time I lost my vision for about 24 hours. After another week of medical tests that left specialists scratching their heads, the feedback was, 'We don't know why you lost your vision but you are really lucky to have gotten it back.' Back home, I looked at that drink mix, and the connection 'clicked,' and by that time there was a lot of new information about the dangers of aspartame. When I I absently accept a drink or accept some food item without checking the ingredients, my eyes get that funny feeling - it seems to be a true poison to my body.

So what does this has to do with birding and binoculars? Although with corrective lenses, I see really well, when using binoculars my eyes will no longer align the image. Just like when I would see double, I can close one eye and see well - or the other - but no matter how I tweak/adjust the binoculars, my eyes just won't/can't coordinate a clear image. Most likely a monocular would be perfect and much handier to use where I live in Ecuador, but until I am in the USA again, testing one is not an easy option here.

My camera has become my binoculars, and over the years there are times when a birding friend with binoculars - as we are watching a rare bird - will ask, 'Did you get it?' and once a friend nudged, 'Get a picture of its tail - its tail....' (Black-billed Cuckoo, which is not often seen in Manabi Province.)

Now for the new word, which I stumbled upon a year ago: Aphantasia, the inability to see anything in your mind's eye. For those of you who are reading, close your eyes and picture a pair of binoculars on a sandy beach. Or a bright red Cardinal or Tanager on a lone branch against a blue sky. Or, as the example many use, picture a red apple on a white plate. I close my eyes and see nothing. I always thought that 'mind's eye' was a figment of speech. If you're curious, I wrote about it HERE.

For me, having a photo backup helps in so many ways; for reference in my studies, in order to study the bird after I'm home again - as I see the bird, note its behavior and quirks. If I turn away, the image clicks off as if I turned off the television. I make a zillion notations in silent verbal notations/narrative to better recall, or else it will vanish. I am now somewhat envious of any of you who can retain those images in your mind's eyes (minds' eyes?) There are many times when my camera is at my side, and the joy of just watching the birds depends on my natural vision. But to better study any bird, my camera is the extension of my eyes - and if needed there is an instant to take a photo before a mystery bird flies away, like when the Blackpoll Warbler perched for about half a minute then soared back out of my life.

So that's all for this epistle; I have a date with a Common Potoo, so am signing off until tonight! (Those studies are with pencil in hand, eyes on the bird and vines and limbs, and with camera by my side...) Happy birding everyone!
Lisa

Lisa!

This is seriously fascinating, it reminds me of when an engineering buddy hit his head and lost his sense of taste and smell for almost a year. I had no idea aspartame was so nasty!

btw Canon has released a new digital monocular I am anticipating testing upon my brief (but not brief enough!) visit to the states this fall, I wonder if it would be happy medium between hauling the bazooka lens and my giant nikon binocs.. I hate new gear, but the prospect of that level of zoom for less than $500 is for me, very enticing.

also, mucho gusto!

I am actually in Manabi right now on a "working vacation"

Are you enjoying el Paro?

 

[WPASA]

If you spend a lot of time in the field and a lot of time editing photos perhaps you might find the experience more enriching if you use a field guide and start to ID the birds yourself, rather than wait for / expect others to do so? If I understand your post correctly, you're photographing a lot of birds, then editing the photos, then uploading to iNat without even any ID suggestions / classification, and expecting the public to ID all your birds for you?

This is not my expectation whatsoever. I am simply asking for advice to better archive my work to increase accessibility and visibility to more professionals and students.

I carry 4 pounds of Robert S. Ridgely's work with me regularly, I can identify a bird, sir.

I'm talking about completing observations, thoughtfully, correctly and accurately.

Also I'm not alone in this, prior to posting this, I consulted 2 biologists, one working in the sierras (Andes) and the other, the leading published authority on shorebirds for the country, both described similar results and dissatisfaction with iNaturalist.

When I ask a question here I am not demanding information for my own personal validation, it is often at the request or inquiry of individuals who don't share the same grasp on english or technology, I am simply trying to increase access and accuracy of information.

 

[pbjosh]

This is not my expectation whatsoever. I am simply asking for advice to better archive my work to increase accessibility and visibility to more professionals and students.

I carry 4 pounds of Robert S. Ridgely's work with me regularly, I can identify a bird, sir.

I'm talking about completing observations, thoughtfully, correctly and accurately.

Also I'm not alone in this, prior to posting this, I consulted 2 biologists, one working in the sierras (Andes) and the other, the leading published authority on shorebirds for the country, both described similar results and dissatisfaction with iNaturalist.

When I ask a question here I am not demanding information for my own personal validation, it is often at the request or inquiry of individuals who don't share the same grasp on english or technology, I am simply trying to increase access and accuracy of information.

I apologize for misinterpreting your original post! I guess I still do not understand exactly what is going on. I'm not an iNaturalist user, as I found the site a bit clunky and I didn't find that it offered me anything novel compared to eBird and/or iGoTerra.

If you're concerned about increasing the visibility of sightings, eBird would definitely be the highest profile place to log your observations.

If the issue is uploading properly identified birds to iNaturalist and then wishing other people were providing confirming IDs (I think, now, that this is your dilemma) I guess it doesn't surprise me that people don't. Again, I've not used iNaturalist very much but with the huge flood of bird contributions to these types of sites, it's a bit much to expect a large public out there who is keen to look over and validate all sitings. Even if they're correct. eBird reviewing is a painful / thankless job, and that is merely a case of reviewing things that have been flagged as unlikely. The vast majority of eBird sightings go into the database but never get critically reviewed. I regularly find mis-ID'd photos and at times recordings in Macaulay Library / eBird, and I flag those for review when I see them.

Even on this site, I look through the ID requests from time to time, and provide help when/where I can. However, it is not uncommon to ask for help with good photos of clearly identifiable birds, or terrible photos of what are bound to be common birds (ie, from Puembo or in town in Mindo or Quito or the like). I understand, we are all beginners at some point, but I personally am generally more interested in the harder to ID species or more interesting photos, rather than telling someone they've got photos of BG Tanager, Gr Kiskadee, and Scrub Blackbird all day

 

[opisska]

Lsueza is from Sao Paolo and is an unpublished amateur naturalist.

I am working exclusively in Latin America, not Brasil and am asking for advice for putting my observations into the right hands ...

Yes, amateur naturalists, that's exactly who are you gonna get to ID on iNat. That's literally the point of the website. I have deleted the rest of the quote because it's frankly offensive and you should slap yourself on the face for saying that. Lseuza in particular has alerted me to ID errors many times, hr definitely doesn't "mindlessly sweep".