Ivory-billed Woodpecker (formerly updates) (5 Viewers)

[Goatnose]

Only Human

I am sure Cornell put forth a good search effort and I do believe they covered area on the WRNWR. Their search methods scientific and unbias surely but on the other hand these were humans searching and there were variables imposed on these searchers, bias variables. Please see attached for example. Probably no reason to search this area where this guy hangs out. Water Mocassin, big as your leg with a "green racing stripe" would introduce bias into my search method. This is a tough place to search people, not all areas were searched this year I promise, maybe next year. Photo taken May 07,2006 WRNWR near Burnt Cypress Lake

 

[timeshadowed]

Any DNA floating around in them?

I don't have that answer. I posted the entire paragraph about it from the Cornell email Newsletter.

 

[Russ Jones]

I'm not sure why everyone was expecting some clear cut evidence this year. Can you imagine how slim your chances are of actually getting footage in the form of a photo or video? I don't know if sound recordings will ever be enough proof for some, there are already some pretty good recordings and still they are not good enough. I think Cornell have done well and I congratulate them on a great effort. It is too easy to sit behind a computer and pass negative judgements on the searchers, I think many of you are underestimating the task at hand.

Just my .02

Russ

 

[gws]

I am sure Cornell put forth a good search effort and I do believe they covered area on the WRNWR. Their search methods scientific and unbias surely but on the other hand these were humans searching and there were variables imposed on these searchers, bias variables. Please see attached for example. Probably no reason to search this area where this guy hangs out. Water Mocassin, big as your leg with a "green racing stripe" would introduce bias into my search method. This is a tough place to search people, not all areas were searched this year I promise, maybe next year. Photo taken May 07,2006 WRNWR near Burnt Cypress Lake

That's a helluva cottonmouth, Goatnose.

Very impressive variable.

 

[timeshadowed]

I'm not sure why everyone was expecting some clear cut evidence this year. . . Just my .02
Russ

I totally understand the difficulties in searching the swamps for the IBWO. I do not blame Cornell et all for not getting that perfect photo. It is more of a personal disappointment for me, than blaming. I just had very 'high hopes' that 'someone' would come up with a photo that would end this back and forth debate once and for all. So it is a personal let-down to realize that I will have to wait longer for that photo.

Nevertheless, I still can say "Good job and well done" to all that have been in the swamps searching for the IBWO.

 

[Curtis Croulet]

I'm not sure why everyone was expecting some clear cut evidence this year. Can you imagine how slim your chances are of actually getting footage in the form of a photo or video? I don't know if sound recordings will ever be enough proof for some, there are already some pretty good recordings and still they are not good enough. I think Cornell have done well and I congratulate them on a great effort. It is too easy to sit behind a computer and pass negative judgements on the searchers, I think many of you are underestimating the task at hand.

Just my .02

Russ

I like your level-headed post, but the fact remains that the window of opportunity has passed, and it will not likely appear again. Whether or not the birds were there last season, they are not there now, and the South is a big place to look for the birds' new home.

We already pretty much knew that Cornell had no new pictures, but I had hopes for new audio evidence. According to Camp Ephilus, Bobby Harrison recently talked of "thousands" of recorded knocks and kents. There's no hint of "thousands" of recordings in Cornell's latest published reports. It sounds to me like a good ol' boy storyteller spinning some yarns for them Yankees, and it also leaves me wondering about Harrison's reliability as Gallagher's co-observer of their Feb 27, 2004, sighting. In any case, unless there's a big surprise in Clarendon tomorrow, it looks like just another disappointment in a real downer.

 

[Majordan]

OOPS! Left the lens cap on again.

Knowing the scientific and financial value of a clear and indisputable picture/video of an IBWO, what kind of idiot would expend the time, money, and effort traipsing around in swamps with a crappy camcorder KNOWING that if he did get a recording, it would be contestable? If I really believed I was going to see an IBWO, I'd make sure I had suitable audio video equipment...that is unless I just wanted to deceive people. Let's all chip in and buy Mike a new camcorder. Egads....

Now, for the rest of the story. I, like many of you, have been inexplicably captivated by the legend and magnificence of the IBWO since I was a youth. Unlike most of you, I am not an ornithologist, or even a birdwatcher. However, I have been following this unfolding saga since Kullivan's (OOOP'S! couldn't get the camera outta my backpack in time...) sighting in the Pearl River basin and have reached some conclusions:

1. Bark scaling, kent calls, and doble knocks: I live in Wisconsin and can walk into any given woods on any given day and experience the same "evidence". Unreliable at best.

2. Kullivan: Kullivan is an experienced outdoorsman who is unlikely to misidentify an IBWO for another species. He is either lieing, or telling the truth. Polygraph him.

3. Collins: His faith might deceive him into believing he has seen a miracle. Polygraph him.

4. Major Dan: Growing up in Wisconsin along the Mississippi River I would spend my summers climbing the bluffs armed with my pellet gun and a brown paper sack full of provisions (To put your minds at ease, the pellet gun was for rattlesnakes, not birds). I can remember seeing PIWO's on a regular basis. On one ocassion I spent hours sitting, back against an oak, eating chips and a chicken sandwich, drinking strawberry pop, and watching the parents of a brood of PIWO's go about the business of feeding their impatient and clamoring young. I have never known PIWO's to be shy, and my presence certainly didn't deter them from their affairs that day. In fact, I remember wondering if IBWO's acted the same way, and I imagined they did. Why wouldn't they? But for some reason, they apparently don't. Despite their habitat being better than its been in a hundred years, and "sightings" on the rise, no one gets a definitive picture or a film in an era when video equipment is as common as whitebread.

5. Cornell: As I said earlier, I am no expert when it comes to birds, so I cannot tell you what Sparling, and Gallagher, and Harrison, and David Luneau saw and videotaped in the Big Woods of Arkansas in 2004, but I can tell you what its not; it is not a PIWO. I know what those look like. I can draw them from memory. To assert that Luneau's video portrays a giant mutation of a PIWO is as riduculous as assigning credibility to Mike Collins. So for now, my faith lies with the boys from Cornell. They are the ornithologists, not me. I can tell you what it isn't, let them, the experts, tell you what it is. I believe them.

 

[jimbones]

Jimbones

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My only hope now is that finally the bird can live in peace as it has for the last 6 or 7 decades. If any of the other searches yield anything I hope these folks will have the fortitude to just relish in the miracle that they are and let them live in peace. Finally Karma. Those who have ridiculed now face the same. And the bird will be left alone hopefully.

I am not a birder but have been following the ivorybill saga since news of the Kullivan sighting. I've read four books on the bird and feel they do indeed still exist in small numbers. Part of me would love the see that definite picture but fear the the stampede of people could upset any remaining birds. So I agree with the above post that maybe we should protect as much of the birds habitat as possible and let them exist in peace.

 

[affe22]

1. Bark scaling, kent calls, and double knocks: I live in Wisconsin and can walk into any given woods on any given day and experience the same "evidence". Unreliable at best.

I'm going to have to disagree with that point. I grew up in an area with a good number of PIWOs and I never heard anything that resembled a kent call or double knock. They just don't happen everywhere. If you would, try and record some of the "evidence" and post it up. I bet it isn't anywhere near the same.

I definitely feel more of a personal let down from this then an "I hate Cornell for lying" feeling. I really expected them to get something that would solidify their case and they didn't. With all the added interest that spawned from this, hopefully someone somewhere will get something soon but if nothing comes about in 5 - 10 years, I would believe that the IBWP is no more and has been for quite a while.

 

[IBWO_Agnostic]

It's been 5(+) years since Kullivan and the search of the Pearl. Giving Lowery the benefit of the doubt, it's been 30 years since Louisiana. Still no photos. You can scream 'wary' until you are blue in the face, but 60 years without a photo says a lot. A sad lot, but a lot nonetheless.

Again, we can get photos of EXTREMELY wary birds. It does happen and it is possible. NOT getting good ones of IBWO is very troubling.

(why can't I keep away from this forum, I've got so much work to do...must be strong...must ignore forum....).

BTW, here's BIRDCHICK's experiences:

http://www.eagleoptics.com/search.asp?q=Ivory-billed+woodpecker+&pid=4692

Here's how she handles a less than adequate sighting:

"The woodpecker flushed. It was big, had white above and below on the primary and secondaries and the wings were so long, they reminded me of peregrine wings. The wings had a rapid flight like a wood duck wing beat. The bird was gone before I realized what I was seeing or even had a chance to get the video camera off of standby.

What the heck did I just see? I know what it looked like to me, but could it really have been the woodpecker? I chased the bird as far as I could before I started to seriously trip over cypress knees. I was angry and confused, this was not the look I wanted, and this was about as long and definitive as the Lunneau video. I wanted better than this or to not see it at all."
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spoken like a true birder.

 

[Curtis Croulet]

Something I find interesting is that supposedly experienced birders are claiming that they need long, extended views to identify a bird. Really!? Don't any of you have enough experience to ID many, many birds with only a split-second look? Or is this an argument that gets selectively applied in order to discredit IBWO sightings? IBWO vs PIWO should not be difficult. It may be a problem for Betty Backyard Birdwatcher who sees a large crested woodpecker on her suet feeder, but surely it should be easy for any reasonably experienced birder, especially one who's seen lots of Pileateds.

 

[MMinNY]

We're talking about very rare and wary birds with (presumably) a scattered population, so you're only accounting for half of the equation or less. How many people in all those years have made a serious effort to obtain photographs? Not very many, relative to the amount of potential habitat to be searched. I remain confident that another couple of years of concerted effort will produce a good photograph.

It's been 5(+) years since Kullivan and the search of the Pearl. Giving Lowery the benefit of the doubt, it's been 30 years since Louisiana. Still no photos. You can scream 'wary' until you are blue in the face, but 60 years without a photo says a lot. A sad lot, but a lot nonetheless.

Again, we can get photos of EXTREMELY wary birds. It does happen and it is possible. NOT getting good ones of IBWO is very troubling.

 

[70ivorybill78]

Originally Posted by MMinNY
We're talking about very rare and wary birds with (presumably) a scattered population, so you're only accounting for half of the equation or less. How many people in all those years have made a serious effort to obtain photographs? Not very many, relative to the amount of potential habitat to be searched. I remain confident that another couple of years of concerted effort will produce a good photograph.
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Originally Posted by IBWO_Agnostic
It's been 5(+) years since Kullivan and the search of the Pearl. Giving Lowery the benefit of the doubt, it's been 30 years since Louisiana. Still no photos. You can scream 'wary' until you are blue in the face, but 60 years without a photo says a lot. A sad lot, but a lot nonetheless.

Again, we can get photos of EXTREMELY wary birds. It does happen and it is possible. NOT getting good ones of IBWO is very troubling.
--------------------

Some additional things to consider/ponder regarding photos. This bird is not just regarded as wary, it is......

...an extremely rare bird.

...a bird with a "normal" territory regarded as being much larger than a pileated's territory.

...a potentially very nomadic bird (especially if it may not nesting).

My undersatnding of Tanner's work is that he only got his photos from studying an active nesting cavity (found not by him, but a local of the area). Had an active cavity not been located, he may never have had any photographic evidence.

 

[naples]

70ivorybill78

Any news to share from JD State Park?

 

[MMinNY]

I'm planning to search there in the fall. I don't think 70ivorybill78 has any plans to do so.

70ivorybill78

Any news to share from JD State Park?

 

[Edward woodwood]

Something I find interesting is that supposedly experienced birders are claiming that they need long, extended views to identify a bird. Really!? Don't any of you have enough experience to ID many, many birds with only a split-second look? Or is this an argument that gets selectively applied in order to discredit IBWO sightings? IBWO vs PIWO should not be difficult. It may be a problem for Betty Backyard Birdwatcher who sees a large crested woodpecker on her suet feeder, but surely it should be easy for any reasonably experienced birder, especially one who's seen lots of Pileateds.

You only need good views, allied with experience, a level head and an objective approach

which is why experienced, quality birders don't see IBWO. When you've had hundreds of adrenaline rushes from mega rare birds like Pittas, Cochoas, Antpittas, Shortwings, Trogons etc you can realise how people who aren't used to seeing mega rare birds cock it up. We've all done it. More than once.

Please don't call me elitist, I'm sure it's something that any birder with a reasonable amount of experience will be able to identify with.

This, in my opinion, is the sole reason for the half sightings, 'probably's, could have beens etc that follow this bird around. And the lack of photos (and other credible evidence) After all, many mega rare and skulking birds have been oberved well, recorded and photographed by the world's top birders.

Tim

 

[MMinNY]

I suppose it's a matter of how one defines "experienced, quality birders". I suppose you could say that Jim Fitzpatrick, Mindy LaBranche and Melanie Driscoll (to name only three) don't qualify, but who is setting the standard and what are the criteria?

which is why experienced, quality birders don't see IBWO.

This, in my opinion, is the sole reason for the half sightings, 'probably's, could have beens etc that follow this bird around. And the lack of photos (and other credible evidence) After all, many mega rare and skulking birds have been oberved well, recorded and photographed by the world's top birders.

Tim

 

[70ivorybill78]

Posted by naples

70ivorybill78
Any news to share from JD State Park?
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Naples

I've passed this info on to three others, two of which were/are actively associated with Cornell. MMinNY plans on a fall search. I have seen photos of the area and it certainly looks compelling. Also, there were two additional sightings in 2005 other than the sighting I spoke of. One of these additional sightings also specifically mentioned a female bird (black crest). I would love to search the area, but it is too far from my neck of the woods. I will be searching closer to home. Regarding the two Cornell contacts, one I had no response from, the other I believe is checking the area out.

BTW - Jerome Jackson investigated this very location in the 1980s in regard to what may have been a good sighting.

 

[Curtis Croulet]

Let me see if I've got this right: experienced birders don't see Ivory-bills; if a birder sees an Ivory-bill, then they aren't experienced.

 

[70ivorybill78]

Curtis Croulet #4261

Let me see if I've got this right: experienced birders don't see Ivory-bills; if a birder sees an Ivory-bill, then they aren't experienced.
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Curtis

You might also add that until 2004, many experienced birders would not bother to go into many of the areas where this bird would be likely to be found. That is why many of the sightings over the years have come from hunters and fishermen, the kinds of people who were going back into the unsearched nooks and crannies of the deeply wooded/swamped world. Many of these people may not have known what an Ivory-bill was, but they sure knew what it wasn't and they often were very well aquainted with Pileateds.