• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Ivory-billed Woodpecker (formerly updates) (4 Viewers)

IBWO_Agnostic said:
the prudent thing to do would be to send in a dozen observers to quietly work the area hoping to pin down the location of a roost/nest tree.

Who's going to recruit and send these observers? AFAIK, Mike is not head of a university department or museum. He can't just make a call and say, "Hey, Fitz old boy, could you trim your Arkansas project and send a few ornithologists down here to help me out?"
 
Curtis Croulet said:
Who's going to recruit and send these observers? AFAIK, Mike is not head of a university department or museum. He can't just make a call and say, "Hey, Fitz old boy, could you trim your Arkansas project and send a few ornithologists down here to help me out?"

Part of me wishes that Arkansas would get ALL the attention of the CLO/media/organized searches...whilst ivorybills are left alone elsewhere.

I know, I know, if ivorybills are confirmed somewhere then that area would get protection, but still part of me wants them to be left alone.
 
Curtis Croulet said:
Who's going to recruit and send these observers? AFAIK, Mike is not head of a university department or museum. He can't just make a call and say, "Hey, Fitz old boy, could you trim your Arkansas project and send a few ornithologists down here to help me out?"

Actually, that is what has happened for YEARS in the IBWO searchers world. This isn't new you know. When someone gets something promising, birders are usually hot on the trail. There have been intriguing sightings since the 50s. In many cases a half dozen or more birders followed up and unfortunately came back empty. There have been some well-publicized searches (Texas and SC) in the past but there have been a lot more un-publicized searches by birders really wanting to see an IBWO.

So if I'm at Cornell, and I see fishcrow's site, I don't think it would be a big deal to let my staff in AR know and give them a day or two to take a quick run down south. Brinkley to Slidell is a less than 8 hour drive. Stennis is adjacent to a publically accessible WMA with decent habitat and less restrictions on the publc.

I believe he did have some folks come down and check it out. I'm just not sure they came down in a timely manner. Why? is the question.

This BS about birders disturbing the birds and making them flee is absolute CRAP. Birders head through woods every day, do these birds disappear and stop breeding. Of course not. Mike (and IBWO) would have been well served if the info was put out right away and 20 birders showed up on the WMA. They would NOT have sent the birds packing. Maybe they would have got great video and we wouldn't be debating anything. This is the way it should be done. All this secrecy serves no one (not even the IBWO). Do you think it would have been easier to stop the big water project in AR, if we had DEFINITIVE proof of their continued existence. Of course it would have. Do you think even MORE money could have been generated for land purchases if we had DEFINITIVE proof. Of course it would.
 
Tim Allwood said:
people always hate you if you tell the truth
Since when have you told the truth? You have repeatedly tried to slander me with innuendo that there are some dark secrets in my past. Most of the people who visit this board realize that you're just a noise machine, and that's why they have put you on their ignore list. You have added nothing productive to this discussion. For example, you claim that nobody with any "standing" has discussed my data. This is another of your lies. If you can find anything in that video that is suggestive of pileated, then let's hear it.
 
cinclodes said:
Since when have you told the truth? You have repeatedly tried to slander me with innuendo that there are some dark secrets in my past. Most of the people who visit this board realize that you're just a noise machine, and that's why they have put you on their ignore list. You have added nothing productive to this discussion. For example, you claim that nobody with any "standing" has discussed my data. This is another of your lies. If you can find anything in that video that is suggestive of pileated, then let's hear it.

i have only repeated things that are already known (some of which you have even referred to yourself) and as i also took great care to state, I have no reason to believe or disbelieve those people's opinions.

I wouldn't start saying that i tell 'lies' either as i can back up all those points - and am prepared to do so, but let's not go there? I won't complain to moderators about that kind of 'slander' but will rather point to the facts...

I have claimed that no one of any standing thinks the video is of an IBWO - feel free to quash that with a name or two... here's your chance.

None of the above is personal opinion - but I don't think the bird in the video is an IBWO though. But then again, I couldn't identify it in a month of Sundays on the clip / stills.

And i know from PMs and emails that i speak for others - another reason i post

Tim
 
cinclodes said:
Since when have you told the truth? You have repeatedly tried to slander me with innuendo that there are some dark secrets in my past. Most of the people who visit this board realize that you're just a noise machine, and that's why they have put you on their ignore list. You have added nothing productive to this discussion. For example, you claim that nobody with any "standing" has discussed my data. This is another of your lies. If you can find anything in that video that is suggestive of pileated, then let's hear it.

And this is "adding something productive" to the discussion?
 
IBWO_Agnostic said:
Mike (aka Fishcrow),

Do you have any idea why no one initiated a 'blitz' into your area after you put the videos and other evidence online? (ignore this question if they did)

In Ark., when a volunteer would get an interesting encounter, the next day, Cornell would saturate the area with the available full-time staff in the hopes of a better sighting. I know you weren't affiliated with Cornell, but it seems that if someone is reporting multiple views over a couple of days, the prudent thing to do would be to send in a dozen observers to quietly work the area hoping to pin down the location of a roost/nest tree.

I know you were/are concerned about disturbance, but I would think Cornell has a pretty big interest in confirming IBWOs anywhere (not just AR).
There were actually several visitors. The day after I got the video, Van Remsen sent over two of his people. The initial plan was for one visitor, but his car was in the shop. So two of them came over. Since their boat was only big enough for one, I got someone else to help. I had previously gone into that area alone in my small kayak. That day there were four of us with my kayak, a medium sized canoe, and a huge, shiny, aluminum canoe. Due to the current and fallen trees, there was a certain amount of paddle clanging in the large canoe. On the way into the hot zone, a large bird flushed from near the bank (just like in several of my sightings in that area). I suspect that it was the bird, but nobody got a good look at it.

It was a big mistake taking all those people in there that day. I never had another definite sighting in the hot zone. I had been entering that area very quietly in my kayak. I would paddle upstream very early and then quietly drift down. This approach is minimally invasive, and I believe the ivorybills actually started to get used to my presence. On the sixth and final definite sighting (when I got the video), the bird flew away with less urgency than it had after the other times I flushed it. The length of that encounter was more than 12 minutes. I didn't see or hear it constantly during the encounter, but that's the length of time that elapsed between when it flushed and when I got the last of the video.

Other visitors included Jerome Jackson and another ornithologist. They arrived the day after a possible sighting in the hot zone. Since the other ornithologist isn't a U.S. citizen, I was not able to get them into Stennis. So we had to paddle a long distance to reach the hot zone and didn't arrive until late morning. One of the Arkansas searchers heard about my reports and came down to search. He spent some more than a week in the area. He's really good in the field and was very helpful. He was right behind me on March 10, when I had a possible sighting in the hot zone. He and another birder heard possible double raps (when you hear one from close range, there is no doubt, but it's hard to be certain about distant double raps).

There were several other visitors, but only one of them came before the last definite sighting. A veteran of previous Pearl searches and of the Big Woods searches visited twice. One of his visits was on Feb. 15. A few weeks prior to that, I had two sightings but then hit a long dry spell. This visitor suggested that I return to the area of the sightings because the habitat looked best in that area. The next day, I followed his advice and went deeper into that area. That's when I found the hot zone.

I believe it is a poor strategy to use a "blitz" after there is a report. This approach has failed repeatedly in the past. At best, you are only going to drive the birds away with this approach. Look what happened in Arkansas this year. They sent in lots of searchers and didn't have any luck. I believe my results this year have demonstrated that the best way to search is to go solo, be stealthy, and cover lots of ground. In a kayak, you don't really look like a human. You have a much lower profile.

I have not decided how I will handle things next year. I will perhaps bring in one other searcher at a time and split up. One of us will search one area, while the other searches another area. It is a mistake to use teams (even of just two people) because it is more invasive and there is always the temptation to talk.
 
Piltdownwoman said:
And this is "adding something productive" to the discussion?
I asked Tim to refrain from slander and suggested that he discuss the data instead. I think that would be a very productive addition to the discussion if he actually did this. Don't you?
 
Thanks for the details Mike,

BTW...Did you find Jerry Jackson to be the 'beast' some on this forum seem to treat him as? Was he incredulous, or open-minded?

I always bemoan the amount of unnecessary conversation when birding in groups, OTOH, we still see birds, and frankly more eyes help see more birds, so it has it's costs and benefits.
 
Mike,

Would it be worth setting up a suet feeder somewhere where you can observe it without being too noticeable? I really don't know much about the terrain and the seasonal conditions, but come the winter, the birds may appreciate it and you may get a fair chance of seeing one stationary for a little while.
I'm always very envious of people who live in places where if you set up a hide and some feeders, you won't come back to find it full of graffitti, beer cans and condoms...
But the of course, it comes back to that argument about whether you should go to the bird or let it come to you on the other thread...
Cheers.
 
cinclodes said:
I asked Tim to refrain from slander and suggested that he discuss the data instead. I think that would be a very productive addition to the discussion if he actually did this. Don't you?

Golly, this takes you back to be a substitute teacher in second grade.

Yes Fishcrow, Tim shouldn't say mean things to you I think I missed whatever slander it was that you mentioned above), but Fishcrow, you shouldn't say mean things to Tim either.

Speaking of data, how about IBWO_Agnostic's post about those wing tips?
 
IBWO_Agnostic said:
BTW...Did you find Jerry Jackson to be the 'beast' some on this forum seem to treat him as? Was he incredulous, or open-minded?
I read Jerry's book in March 2005. I loved it and couldn't put it down. I had kept quiet about hearing kents in February 2000, but I decided to tell Jerry about it after reading his book. Other than my wife and a close friend, he's the only person I told before the news came from Arkansas (right after the encounter, I mentioned hearing interesting calls on a listserve but that was before I heard the Cornell recordings and realized for sure that I had heard kents). Jerry and another ornithologist (who was traveling with him) are the only two ornithologists who took the time to visit me in the Pearl. Although he arrived late the night before after a long drive, he spent a long time that night going over the video (which was still in crude form at the time). The other ornithologist made several enthusiastic comments, such as "Look at that bill!" and "Look at the neck!" Then he was up at dawn the next day to check out the Pearl. Since the other ornithologist isn't a U.S. citizen, I couldn't get him in through Stennis and we had to paddle a long ways. I think this should answer the question of whether he has an open mind.
 
colonelboris said:
Mike,

Would it be worth setting up a suet feeder somewhere where you can observe it without being too noticeable? I really don't know much about the terrain and the seasonal conditions, but come the winter, the birds may appreciate it and you may get a fair chance of seeing one stationary for a little while.
I'm always very envious of people who live in places where if you set up a hide and some feeders, you won't come back to find it full of graffitti, beer cans and condoms...
But the of course, it comes back to that argument about whether you should go to the bird or let it come to you on the other thread...
Cheers.
I don't know if an ivorybill would be attracted to a suet feeder. At any rate, I wouldn't set one up in the Pearl River WMA since it would probably be illegal.
 
anyway

let's stick to facts

Who of the 'respected birders or scientists' thought it was an IBWO?

And where have I 'slandered' you? I have only posted about events that have factually clouded the records. Right or wrong? Whether i believe those rumours is not the point (for the record again, I have no idea, so am only judging on the video and field records) but they will influence peoples views. More in U.S. than over here of course, where i expect people don't actually read anything into it.

I don't accuse people of lying, and despite my pretty basic, frank and forthright style i do try to be objective.

Answers to the two questions would be nice. I don't want a 500 word essay on who came to see you just who thinks the video is an IBWO. A surname will do. Unless of course you have blocked me as well. Which would say more than any comment ever could.
 
MMinNY said:
It's a distortion to say that people "don't laugh at people who report the bird". The long history of vilification of people who make reports is well-documented in The Grail Bird, and if that satirical article about sightings (that included Steve Sheridan's) isn't ridicule, I don't know what is.

.

Hi Tim and Agnostic,

I'm guessing it is just you guys and me left here. I have always thought that Gallagher overstated what happened with the Big Thicket sighting. The old timers I know say that the Big Thicket was taken seriously, discussed at the AOU, "it was just like the Cornell sighting" one person said to me.

I always thought Tim played that up to get some mileage out of the "persecuted believer who just can't seem to get a confirmation" angle - which is what you do to sell books

Anyway, I can't find anyone to back-up the claim that he was shunned and humiliated - only that after lots of trying, no one could confirm the sighting.

Cheers,

Piltdown
 
Warning! This thread is more than 6 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top