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Ivory-billed Woodpecker (formerly updates) (20 Viewers)

Well, the state of the world is another thing about which we agree; though I don't think the fact that we agree is what proves it. . .the content of the Telegraph piece, on the other hand. . .

But back on topic, Bill Pulliam has posted a response to Martin's article. Bill's analyses in this area have been consistently excellent and fair-minded. His comments are well worth reading.

http://bbill.blogspot.com/2007/03/martin-collinsons-ivorybill-article.html


CornishExile said:
Proof positive the world's going to hell in a handcart.

And to put this debate into perspective, the bad news keeps rolling in...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=BXNBQGJU0FO0NQFIQMGCFFOAVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2007/03/16/nclim16.xml

Most depressing.

ce
Click to expand...
 
MMinNY said:
Well, the state of the world is another thing about which we agree; though I don't think the fact that we agree is what proves it. . .the content of the Telegraph piece, on the other hand. . .

But back on topic, Bill Pulliam has posted a response to Martin's article. Bill's analyses in this area have been consistently excellent and fair-minded. His comments are well worth reading.

http://bbill.blogspot.com/2007/03/martin-collinsons-ivorybill-article.html
Click to expand...

I won't comment on Bill's analysis of the black fringe as I haven't looked in detail myself, but I disagree with what he says about flight action:

"The Luneau bird does not fully extend its wings at the top of the upstroke, and holds them in a strong downwardly-bowed arc on every downstroke. ALL pileated videos I have seen show wings that are fully extended on completion of the upstroke and held essentially straight out downstroke on every wingbeat other than the first one or two after launch (while the bird is still rolling to attain proper flight attitude)"

Look at e.g. Frame 700 in Collinson's paper (Fig 3) or just grab the play button with your mouse and drag to play frame by frame on the Luneau vid and at least in some of the flaps the wings are fully extended on the upstroke. As for the downstroke on Piliateds - I'm basing this on the vids I've seen having never seen one in real life, but they do hold they're wings in a downwardly-bowed arc when adopting the more crow like flight mentioned by John immediately after takeoff. It's only when they switch to the more typical leisurely and bouncy flight action associated with woodpeckers that they don't. As I mentioned before, I see no reason for the rapid escape flight couldn't be sustained for a longer period if the bird if the bird was more intent on fleeing. Leave it to those that have seen many Piliated's to comment on this in more detail though.

Edit: I'm not that keen on IDing birds based on flight action as this can be variable, but the Luneau bird's flight action isn't at all reminiscent of a Pintail, which IBWOs is supposed to be.
 
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I think they'd be very wise now to let it go...

but that's not the way the world works

unfortunately

Tim

They may of course find the lone dispersing male again. Or is it conveniently dead?
 
Tim Allwood said:
I think they'd be very wise now to let it go...

but that's not the way the world works

unfortunately

Tim

They may of course find the lone dispersing male again. Or is it conveniently dead?
Click to expand...

you need to remove the "un" from your third line Tim. Of course, you will not be happy until they do abandon the search so...
 
Have just analysed crossbill videos (that someone else filmed) and have discovered that on average scottish crossbill has a cadence of 8.9 wing flaps per second compared to common at 9.4 and Parrot at 8.4. The birds were identified to species by their calls as they flew. One bird was discarded from the sample as it was was being hotly pursued by a merlin - this bird ( a Parrot xbill) reached 13.9 - but then it was flying like a little b:ugger.

Jeezus that was easy, didn't even have to move from my desk, collect any of my own data or do any fieldwork whatsoever - can I get a Blue Peter Badge now ? Paper pending. :brains:

Anyone want to buy a Telinga parabola, Flash recorder and some ringing gear - I need to sell it to buy a HD video camera and a nice chair ? ;)

Linz
 
timeshadowed said:
Tim et all,

Ok, so the video may not be of an IBWO - what difference does it really make?

I'm tired of beating a dead horse to death. Let's all agree to IGNORE the video and move on. As far as I'm concerned that small video clip is not very important anyway - it's way too blurry to tell anything conclusive.

So let's all agree to treat this video as if it did not exist.

BUT . . .

I still believe that the IBWO exists and is flying free in the southern swamps. Can I prove this? No I can not. But I choose to believe the many sighting reports of IBWO's down through the years. That is the basis of my belief, not some 4 second blurry video clip.
Click to expand...

Well, the video was "the proof" wasn't it?

Without the video, the claimed sightings in Arkansas, Florida and elsewhere just become part of the extensive, widespread stringing of Ivory-billed Woodpeckers by non-birders or birders with poorly focussed optics and / or optimistic assessments of briefly glimpsed pileateds.

The only remaining mystery worth solving is why Cornell are still flogging their own dead horse.
 
Tim Allwood said:
I think they'd be very wise now to let it go...

but that's not the way the world works

unfortunately

Tim

They may of course find the lone dispersing male again. Or is it conveniently dead?
Click to expand...
It is unfortunate, condors have gotten tens of millions, the IBWO has gotten millions (and it may not even exist), some duck in asia, $19.95. It's obvious that some of these animals need better public relations.
 
lewis20126 said:
Well, the video was "the proof" wasn't it?
Click to expand...

No, not by the way I think. I place more weight on the first-hand observations that took place with sketched field notes. The video is only one small piece of data that has been collected. It is not the "whole pie" as the media and skeptics like to portray.
 
Need Some Answers

I just viewed this page:

http://birdaz.com/blog/2007/03/16/guatemala-pale-billed-woodpecker/

The top picture of the Pale-Billed Woodpecker looks like the Tanner IBWO picture on page 26 of the latest "Birding" issue to me.

Is it possible that the Pale-Billed Woodpecker could also be in the Southern Swamps of N America?

This would explain why some think that searchers are seeing a PIWO and not the IBWO because the Pale-Billed Woodpecker's body is mostly black.

I need some comments on these thoughts and the ones in the quoted post. Are these suggestions vaild?

Thanks







timeshadowed said:
I was able to view a copy of the latest ABA "Birding" Magazine today. On page 26 there is a color photo - courtesy Nancy Tanner - of a perched male IBWO. This photo does not seem to be available on the ABA web site that I'm aware of.

What struck me about the photo was that:

1. The white dorsal stripe is very wide and runs down the neck as one would expect but this stripe does not extend down the back of the bird.
2. The white wing patch only appears to be a tiny spot located well above the normal 'white saddle' appearance that we have come to expect.
3. However, the large white bill and large yellow eye and red crest are all very visable in the photo.

I'm almost positive that if this same photo were to be presented by a 'searcher' today, the skeptics would be still claiming that this was a PIWO photo and not an IBWO photo.

To any that have also viewed this photo, what are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
 
timeshadowed said:
I just viewed this page:

http://birdaz.com/blog/2007/03/16/guatemala-pale-billed-woodpecker/

The top picture of the Pale-Billed Woodpecker looks like the Tanner IBWO picture on page 26 of the latest "Birding" issue to me.

Is it possible that the Pale-Billed Woodpecker could also be in the Southern Swamps of N America?

This would explain why some think that searchers are seeing a PIWO and not the IBWO because the Pale-Billed Woodpecker's body is mostly black.

I need some comments on these thoughts and the ones in the quoted post. Are these suggestions vaild?

Thanks
Click to expand...

In a word, no.

The Pale-billed is a sedentary tropical species that doesn't range close enough to the southeastern US to occur there, and because of its sedentary nature is very very extremely unlikely as a trans-gulf migrant.

That old Singer Tract photo does not make a good match for Pale-billed Woodpecker in my opinion - Pale-billed would probably be called the "Red-headed Woodpecker" is that name wasn't already taken. The really noticeable thing about Pale-billed when you see one is the amount of red on the head. Aside from that it looks very much like a Lineated, which in turn looks rather Pileatedish.

About that Singer Tract photo - shows the effect of shadow to darken what should be white areas, but the white that is visible on the wing is in the wrong place for PIWO. The large pale bill also stands out, again partially due to lighting.
 
timeshadowed said:
Is it possible that the Pale-Billed Woodpecker could also be in the Southern Swamps of N America?

This would explain why some think that searchers are seeing a PIWO and not the IBWO because the Pale-Billed Woodpecker's body is mostly black.

I need some comments on these thoughts and the ones in the quoted post. Are these suggestions vaild?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Since most of the supposed observations involve large woodpeckers with extensive white in the wings rather than pale bills and dorsal stripes, I'd say its not likely verging on impossible. Rather more likely that they are seeing Pileateds with exaggerated white in the wings.
 
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