Ivory-billed Woodpecker (formerly updates) (2 Viewers)

[John Mariani]

You can not 'prove' that he 'faked evidence' anymore than the existence of the IBWO is 'proven' by what information has been released so far.

I think you may be carrying this ontological thing a bit too far. In a philosophy class you can argue that nothing can be proven and all statements are equally true, and so on and so forth. But in the real world that sort of arguement becomes kinda silly when dealing with the obvious. I think this is that obvious.

I recall many many posts ago the debates about the photo, about the placement of the white, etc. My thoughts at the time were disbelief that intelligent people were taking that photo seriously enough to even attempt to analyze it. The evidence speaks for itself. I'm just amazed that it doesn't speak clearly to you. Do you not know what real birds look like?

 

[John Mariani]

There is a way to expose fraud without resorting to personal attacks. Attack the subject matter, not the person!

Interesting. How exactly would that be done? TMguy's Ivory-billed Woodpecker photo was an attempt to perpetrate a fraud. I don't think there's any way to say that without it implying something about Tmguy.

 

[timeshadowed]

Interesting. How exactly would that be done? TMguy's Ivory-billed Woodpecker photo was an attempt to perpetrate a fraud. I don't think there's any way to say that without it implying something about Tmguy.

Comments such as the one below, made by you, are unnecessary and are nothing but a personal attack.

Maybe Tmguy could organize a seance. Everyone hold hands around the cypress tree......listen carefully you can hear the double rapping...maybe the bird will even appear to you...if you don't mind it being the same one in his photograph.

 

[rob stoff]

no, that's just banter, calling him a ****ing mentalist would be a personal attack.

anyway, back to the point of this thread, any sign of any evidence yet, if not why not?

Rob

 

[KC Foggin]

Enough!

 

[curunir]

Drugs

TmGuy has single handedly re-energized this thread. Look at Tom Nelson's blog, zip, zilch, nada since he switched to global warming. It seems that people are much more interested in the plight of the IBWO than the future of all species in the world. (more or less) Personally, I don't believe TmGuys bird was made of balsa, but whatever. I'm planning to be in the Gainesville area in September, anyplace to hunt for the giant pecker in that area?

 

[IBWO_Agnostic]

Curunir,

People aren't avoiding Tom's blog because they don't care about the future of all species, they are avoiding it (at least I am) because he's lost his way. Denying global warming or man's role in it, will not make it go away. Tom's barking up the wrong tree and the lack of people commenting on his blog speaks volumes.

 

[salar53]

Symbol

TmGuy has single handedly re-energized this thread. Look at Tom Nelson's blog, zip, zilch, nada since he switched to global warming. It seems that people are much more interested in the plight of the IBWO than the future of all species in the world. (more or less) Personally, I don't believe TmGuys bird was made of balsa, but whatever. I'm planning to be in the Gainesville area in September, anyplace to hunt for the giant pecker in that area?

Well the IBWO is undoubtedly a very powerful symbol but I think you're exaggerating a little.
I agree that TMGuy is extremely colourful and very readable. He reminds me of Choupique1 who used to post here with distinction.
And I don't underestimate the recent contributions of Dave-in-Michigan or Louis Bevier.
Yes, a little debate is healthy.

 

[sneaky pete]

Curunir,

People aren't avoiding Tom's blog because they don't care about the future of all species, they are avoiding it (at least I am) because he's lost his way. Denying global warming or man's role in it, will not make it go away. Tom's barking up the wrong tree and the lack of people commenting on his blog speaks volumes.

Globel warming is real. The IBWO is extinct. Tom Nelson's blog is waning. Why does this thread continue to pick up steam?

 

[Edward woodwood]

I agree that TMGuy is extremely colourful and very readable. He reminds me of Choupique1 who used to post here with distinction.
.

You mean the Choupique who claimed to have seen Hill's birds when he thought that an announcement was imminent? He got that wrong didn't he?



Tim

 

[salar53]

Healthy

You mean the Choupique who claimed to have seen Hill's birds when he thought that an announcement was imminent? He got that wrong didn't he?



Tim

Well Choupique1 claimed to have seen the birds - perhaps most convincingly in Louisiana.
Professor Hill and his team claim to have seen them in Florida.
And I hope they all did.
And while I said that debate is healthy, I didn't mean it to include words like "Liar".

 

[timeshadowed]

Where is Choupique1 these days - he changed his id when he went over to the other board, but that id has not been active for almost a year now! So Where are you, Choupique1?? I miss your posts!!

 

[rob stoff]

Well Choupique1 claimed to have seen the birds - perhaps most convincingly in Louisiana.

any photos?

Professor Hill and his team claim to have seen them in Florida.".

any photos?

And I hope they all did.".

so do I but even Hill admits they need some photos or similar tangible proof

And while I said that debate is healthy, I didn't mean it to include words like "Liar".

it isn't healthy debate if people just make stuff up to support their argument.

Rob

 

[salar53]

Photos

Well Choupique1 claimed to have seen the birds - perhaps most convincingly in Louisiana.

any photos?



any photos?



so do I but even Hill admits they need some photos or similar tangible proof



it isn't healthy debate if people just make stuff up to support their argument.

Rob

Who made stuff up? Is that another way to say,"Liar"? Any proof of "making stuff up"?
Professor Hill has photos and video - they aren't definitive, of course. We would all love definite proof.

And Timeshadowed. I agree. Bring back Choupique1.

 

[Edward woodwood]

Well Choupique1 claimed to have seen the birds - perhaps most convincingly in Louisiana.
Professor Hill and his team claim to have seen them in Florida.
And I hope they all did.
And while I said that debate is healthy, I didn't mean it to include words like "Liar".

no

the same birds

told me he had them several times

it was a lie

deal with it

Tim

 

[Edward woodwood]

is anyone aware of another critically endangered species where people claim to be able to see them whenever they want but those people are not working with the relevant organisations to study or protect the birds?

If these people are lying then that would make them reprehensible people playing on the hopes and wishes of the well-intentioned but gullible. You can decide whether it is the case or not here.

 

[rob stoff]

Who made stuff up? Is that another way to say,"Liar"? Any proof of "making stuff up"?
Professor Hill has photos and video - they aren't definitive, of course. We would all love definite proof.

And Timeshadowed. I agree. Bring back Choupique1.

yes, let's have some level headed input from the believer's camp 3,

 

[martin kitching]

Who made stuff up? Is that another way to say,"Liar"? Any proof of "making stuff up"?
Professor Hill has photos and video - they aren't definitive, of course. We would all love definite proof.

And Timeshadowed. I agree. Bring back Choupique1.

To paraphrase another poster; If you look upthread eventually you'll come to the post where choupique1 admitted that the only reason he told Tim he'd seen the birds in Florida was because he thought Hill et al had got better evidence. Are you prepared to concede that this was dishonest, or will you simply continue venerating people who have been shown to be demonstrably untrustworthy?

cheers
martin

 

[streatham]

Nothing to add to the thread but I've got a good woodpecker story for you all that I heard the other day. A friend was involved in the Rare Birds Committee in the state and gets a call from someone to say that they have a Three-toed Woodpecker that has hit their window and died. This is pretty big news! Although historically there was the odd incursion of boreal woodpeckers into the state the last definitive sighting had probably been 30 or 40 years back by then. My friend, intrigued, drives round to see the bird and the guy opens up the box the body is in and produces a Downy Woodpecker. My friend explains what it is and shows them that (apart from looking nothing like a Three-toed) the bird in fact has 4 toes. The guy turns to him and says in complete seriousness: "oh i didn't realize that small toe counted as well!" You couldn't make them up!

Luke

 

[salar53]

Seriously

To paraphrase another poster; If you look upthread eventually you'll come to the post where choupique1 admitted that the only reason he told Tim he'd seen the birds in Florida was because he thought Hill et al had got better evidence. Are you prepared to concede that this was dishonest, or will you simply continue venerating people who have been shown to be demonstrably untrustworthy?

cheers
martin

Are you sure of your facts? Do you seriously want me to traipse (to use one of Choupique's words) through twelve thousand eight hundred posts to prove you right?