Jackdaw ssp - help needed (NE Italy) (1 Viewer)

[gmax]

Hello everybody,
yesterday I managed to observe in a flock of feeding Jackdaws a couple of individuals which stood out from the rest of the flock. I was just wondering whether someone could point me in the right direction in terms of ID: apparently they are not ssp spermologus, but eastern subspecies are too a difficult task for me and I know it's impossible to rule out intergrades.
Thank you very much
Max

 

[Bismarck Honeyeater]

Hello everybody,
yesterday I managed to observe in a flock of feeding Jackdaws a couple of individuals which stood out from the rest of the flock. I was just wondering whether someone could point me in the right direction in terms of ID: apparently they are not ssp spermologus, but eastern subspecies are too a difficult task for me and I know it's impossible to rule out intergrades.
Thank you very much
Max

Try this reference. https://www.dutchbirding.nl/journal/pdf/DB_2003_25_4.pdf
They are not of the British/Western or Algerian races, so either Nordic or Russian.

 

[Butty]

Aberrant individuals.

 

[gmax]

Aberrant individuals.

Ssp spermologus or what? Thank you

 

[Butty]

Just whatever your local birds are, but aberrant.

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello Max,

I agree with you, BH, and Butty, that such birds (with quite pale underparts and distinct spotting in at least one bird) arent ssp soemmeringii, that can be identified with confidence in a vagrant context (?).

But I have seen many similar birds in NE-Germany and W-Polnd in winter. And such birds has been named as "polish integrades", at least here Eastern Jackdaws (another reference site, I hope it will be available, despite the sad death of Martin Garner. Some posts have gone).

Yes, I agree with Butty, that there is the possibility that this is an aberrant bird, but birds that look like this are common in winter in NE-Germany, and very rare at best in summer. I mean extreme birds like here, not Jackdaws with a slight pale patch to the neck, so I think they can be identified as polish integrades with a very high degree of confidence.

Birds like this here are common in winter in NE-Germany and W-Poland and can sometimes/rarely be seen in SW-Germany too.
What is common? The only way not see one around Schwedt/NE-Germany or Chojna/Poland in winter is to close the eyes.

And when you look at the map on birdingfrontiers, NE-Italy isnt too far away from the integration zone.

I have written something about the ID of eastern Jackdaws/ssp. soemmeringii vs polish integrades from a german point of view. I have posted this before here, and its written in german, but I hope its helpful here: Halsbanddohlen in Ostdeutschland – Bird Lens
There are some links to similar birds from the zone of integration there, for example this one:

https://flic.kr/p/zEHsDE

all: Dohle mit deutlichem Halsband 12.10.15 (Röpersdorf, NE-Germany, 12.10.15)

 

[Andy Adcock]

These bird with an obvious, pale shoulder bar,are just like the birds I'm seeing here in Cyprus.