Kowa Genesis 8,5x44 compared to Nikon EDG and Swarovski SLC... (1 Viewer)

[The Kingfisher]

I have now tried the Kowa Genesis 8,5x44 at home for about two weeks and I really like it. It took some days to find the right diopter setting, but now when I have done that all became clear that it is a very nice binocular. Actually the best binocular I have ever used. Compared to Nikon EDG 8x42 and also the Swarovski SLC 8x42 it has softer edges, not as wide field of view, not as good eye relief, show some rolling ball when panning and is a little bit bigger and heavier. But in my hands it feels better, the focus wheel and the speed of it is better, the contrast is fantastic, it handles CA better than the Nikon and Swarro, the extra magnification is a big plus, it seems to be very well build, has a nice armoring, has very good lens covers, better close focus than both Nikon EDG and the Swarovski SLC, not perfect but very good colours and I think it looks better than the EDG and SLC too. I like statistics and numbers so I gave the binoculars points between 0-3 in 29 different categories. From the beginning it was 31 categories, but I dont now how the weather protection of the Genesis and the service of the Kowa company is..so I had to skip those two categories. You see the categories and the points as an attached image!

Ps. An interesting note..if we only takes into account the optical scores the Swarovski SLC gets 20 points, the Nikon EDG gets 21 points and the Kowa Genesis gets 20 points! I will also say that I have owned two Swarovski SLC (the old and the latest model) and currently own the Nikon EDG 8x42 since 2011.

 

[Paultricounty]

I have now tried the Kowa Genesis 8,5x44 at home for about two weeks and I really like it. It took some days to find the right diopter setting, but now when I have done that all became clear that it is a very nice binocular. Actually the best binocular I have ever used. Compared to Nikon EDG 8x42 and also the Swarovski SLC 8x42 it has softer edges, not as wide field of view, not as good eye relief, show some rolling ball when panning and is a little bit bigger and heavier. But in my hands it feels better, the focus wheel and the speed of it is better, the contrast is fantastic, it handles CA better than the Nikon and Swarro, the extra magnification is a big plus, it seems to be very well build, has a nice armoring, has very good lens covers, better close focus than both Nikon EDG and the Swarovski SLC, not perfect but very good colours and I think it looks better than the EDG and SLC too. I like statistics and numbers so I gave the binoculars points between 0-3 in 29 different categories. From the beginning it was 31 categories, but I dont now how the weather protection of the Genesis and the service of the Kowa company is..so I had to skip those two categories. You see the categories and the points as an attached image!

Ps. An interesting note..if we only takes into account the optical scores the Swarovski SLC gets 20 points, the Nikon EDG gets 21 points and the Kowa Genesis gets 20 points! I will also say that I have owned two Swarovski SLC (the old and the latest model) and currently own the Nikon EDG 8x42 since 2011.

Congratulations on the Kowa, I have the 8x33 great glass , very nice binoculars. Which EDG do you have? You mention the focuser in one of your categories and have an EDG and would say it’s about the best on the market. All three are phenomenal binoculars, enjoy them all.

 

[The Kingfisher]

Congratulations on the Kowa, I have the 8x33 great glass , very nice binoculars. Which EDG do you have? You mention the focuser in one of your categories and have an EDG and would say it’s about the best on the market. All three are phenomenal binoculars, enjoy them all.

I have the EDG 8x42. When the focus wheel on my EDG works it is silky smooth, but when its cold it become stiff. Sometimes it goes from smooth to have a little play..and sometimes it happens that the wheel "go up" so the "diopter wheel" is exposed. There is also a risk that the diopter setting change when focusing..even when the diopter wheel is hidden. The focus wheel on the Kowa is very good..the wheel it self is large, has a surface that give a good grip, the placement of the wheel is perfect for me and it has a nice feel when focusing. Its rather fast too!

 

[Paultricounty]

I have the EDG 8x42. When the focus wheel on my EDG works it is silky smooth, but when its cold it become stiff. Sometimes it goes from smooth to have a little play..and sometimes it happens that the wheel "go up" so the "diopter wheel" is exposed. There is also a risk that the diopter setting change when focusing..even when the diopter wheel is hidden. The focus wheel on the Kowa is very good..the wheel it self is large, has a surface that give a good grip, the placement of the wheel is perfect for me and it has a nice feel when focusing. Its rather fast too!

Yes, I’m familiar with the Genesis line, great stuff. The focus wheel is metal and somewhat tight, which some of us like.

On the EDG the play and movement of the focus wheel in relation to the diopter, that sounds more like a defect or something not working to spec. As far as the focuser getting stiff in cold weather that’s inherent in binoculars that use grease to lubricate to smooth focusing. That is normal and will happen in the Genesis as well, then it really gets tight. Some premiums (alphas) use greaseless focusers, like Swaro EL (not sure about NL or SLC) and the Leica’s so that the resistance is the same in warm or cold conditions.

some say that that makes for a less smooth focuser. I don’t think I’m buying that because some of the binoculars I have with greaseless focusers quite smooth.

What EDG do you have? Is it a double bridge (some call open bridge) or is it the one with only one bridge? Theres the EDG and EDII. Just a little curious.

thx

 

[The Kingfisher]

Yes, I’m familiar with the Genesis line, great stuff. The focus wheel is metal and somewhat tight, which some of us like.

On the EDG the play and movement of the focus wheel in relation to the diopter, that sounds more like a defect or something not working to spec. As far as the focuser getting stiff in cold weather that’s inherent in binoculars that use grease to lubricate to smooth focusing. That is normal and will happen in the Genesis as well, then it really gets tight. Some premiums (alphas) use greaseless focusers, like Swaro EL (not sure about NL or SLC) and the Leica’s so that the resistance is the same in warm or cold conditions.

some say that that makes for a less smooth focuser. I don’t think I’m buying that because some of the binoculars I have with greaseless focusers quite smooth.

What EDG do you have? Is it a double bridge (some call open bridge) or is it the one with only one bridge? Theres the EDG and EDII. Just a little curious.

thx

I have the latest..the EDG with one bridge (EDG II). Yes, I also think that the Kowa Genesis will get a little stiffer in cold weather, but the focuser is larger, have better grip and is more reliable than the focuser on the Nikon EDG..so I think that the focuser of the Kowa will still feel much better than the EDG. Nikon EDG is a very nice binocular, but on my speciman the focuser sometimes is really bad (and sometimes very smooth). In direct comparison to the Kowa Genesis 8,5x44 the contrast seems to be rather low in the Nikon..and the CA becomes clearly noticeable then as well.

 

[Paultricounty]

I have the latest..the EDG with one bridge (EDG II). Yes, I also think that the Kowa Genesis will get a little stiffer in cold weather, but the focuser is larger, have better grip and is more reliable than the focuser on the Nikon EDG..so I think that the focuser of the Kowa will still feel much better than the EDG. Nikon EDG is a very nice binocular, but on my speciman the focuser sometimes is really bad (and sometimes very smooth). In direct comparison to the Kowa Genesis 8,5x44 the contrast seems to be rather low in the Nikon..and the CA becomes clearly noticeable then as well.

I am a little bit surprised in the differences you experience with these two binoculars. I can’t speak for the 8.5 Genesis but have some experience with the the 833 Genesis and find its a Phenomenal bino at it’s price point.

But getting back to the comparison of a Genesis and an EDG. I have compared the EDG 842 to a few Genesis level binos (MHG, TrinovidHD, and conquestHD) and I find that the EDG is a step up in almost every category optically. I’m not arguing and no disrespect here, just two Optics aficionados discussing a few different binoculars. I’ve had a few binoculars that didn’t live up to their reputation and thought that a specific optic is overrated. But after reading so much here on BF, I’ve learned that many of those times the specimen I had was out of spec in some way. Being that they don’t make the EDG’s anymore and they are highly regarded to many birders, I’d suggest sending your Nikons to be checked. Nikon will service them, unless they don’t have some needed part. But it’s worth a try. I think the EDGs are one of the best binoculars optically of anything available. Anyway good luck, I enjoyed your review.

Paul

 

[The Kingfisher]

I am a little bit surprised in the differences you experience with these two binoculars. I can’t speak for the 8.5 Genesis but have some experience with the the 833 Genesis and find its a Phenomenal bino at it’s price point.

But getting back to the comparison of a Genesis and an EDG. I have compared the EDG 842 to a few Genesis level binos (MHG, TrinovidHD, and conquestHD) and I find that the EDG is a step up in almost every category optically. I’m not arguing and no disrespect here, just two Optics aficionados discussing a few different binoculars. I’ve had a few binoculars that didn’t live up to their reputation and thought that a specific optic is overrated. But after reading so much here on BF, I’ve learned that many of those times the specimen I had was out of spec in some way. Being that they don’t make the EDG’s anymore and they are highly regarded to many birders, I’d suggest sending your Nikons to be checked. Nikon will service them, unless they don’t have some needed part. But it’s worth a try. I think the EDGs are one of the best binoculars optically of anything available. Anyway good luck, I enjoyed your review.

Paul

And I am a little bit surprised about your comment if you have not tried the Kowa Genesis 8,5x44... To me it is in another league than Zeiss Conquest HD. If you look at the "optical points" I gave to Nikon and Kowa you see that Nikon get higher points in some categories; sweetspot, edge-to-edge sharpness and rolling ball..but Kowa Genesis get higher optical points in other categories; contrast, flare, color saturation and cromatic aberration. Do you mean that EDG have better contrast than the Kowa Genesis..and that the EDG also handles cromatic aberration better than the Kowa? I have red a review that said that the Kowa has some flare, but my own experience is that its very difficult to see flare in normal viewing or if I look near the sun etc with the Kowa. My experience is that it is easier to see that type of flare in the Nikon EDG. When I say that the Kowa is the best binocular I have tried I dont mean (just) optically. A good binocular is much more than only the optics.

The EDG is a very nice binocular (still my favourite to look thrue I think), but it has som big flaws. On my speciman two big flaws (sometimes) are the focuser and the diopter. They are unreliable on my speciman. Yes..I have send my EDG to Nikon once to fix the problems with the focus wheel and the diopter. I got new armoring as well..and new lens protection if I remember correctly. The lens protection is still another flaw on my EDG. The loose hinge is another flaw. Optically I love the Nikon EDG, but it shows some CA (it became very clear even in normal birding situations after I had used the Kowa Genesis 8.5x44 for some time).

 

[Paultricounty]

And I am a little bit surprised about your comment if you have not tried the Kowa Genesis 8,5x44... To me it is in another league than Zeiss Conquest HD. If you look at the "optical points" I gave to Nikon and Kowa you see that Nikon get higher points in some categories; sweetspot, edge-to-edge sharpness and rolling ball..but Kowa Genesis get higher optical points in other categories; contrast, flare, color saturation and cromatic aberration. Do you mean that EDG have better contrast than the Kowa Genesis..and that the EDG also handles cromatic aberration better than the Kowa? I have red a review that said that the Kowa has some flare, but my own experience is that its very difficult to see flare in normal viewing or if I look near the sun etc with the Kowa. My experience is that it is easier to see that type of flare in the Nikon EDG. When I say that the Kowa is the best binocular I have tried I dont mean (just) optically. A good binocular is much more than only the optics.

The EDG is a very nice binocular (still my favourite to look thrue I think), but it has som big flaws. On my speciman two big flaws (sometimes) are the focuser and the diopter. They are unreliable on my speciman. Yes..I have send my EDG to Nikon once to fix the problems with the focus wheel and the diopter. I got new armoring as well..and new lens protection if I remember correctly. The lens protection is still another flaw on my EDG. The loose hinge is another flaw. Optically I love the Nikon EDG, but it shows some CA (it became very clear even in normal birding situations after I had used the Kowa Genesis 8.5x44 for some time).

I have tried the 8.5x44 Genesis (a short time on an excursion with other birder) but I didn’t do side by side comparison like the ones I mentioned in my post. Very interesting that you sent back the EDG and they came back the same way, I guess that’s not surprising for Nikon lately.

I had no problem with flare in the 8.5 I tried and none in my 833. As far as CA, they are about as good as it gets. My comparisons with the EDG was with the top premium (alphas) and I feel it falls in that category, that’s just one optics geeks opinion. I’ve also compared the EDG to the, what many consider just under alpha if you will, and thats binos in $900-1200 range which is where the Genesis line is.

There are other possibilities when a $1000 optic is performing like an over $2000 optic. Age , how it was taken care (the elements) how much it’s been out and so on, can all have an effect. it certainly does say a lot about how good the Genesis is.

To be clear im not knocking the Genesis, I think they are a phenomenal binoculars for the price point and punch above their weight. It’s only my experience that the EDG is in another class.

 

[The Kingfisher]

I have tried the 8.5x44 Genesis (a short time on an excursion with other birder) but I didn’t do side by side comparison like the ones I mentioned in my post. Very interesting that you sent back the EDG and they came back the same way, I guess that’s not surprising for Nikon lately.

I had no problem with flare in the 8.5 I tried and none in my 833. As far as CA, they are about as good as it gets. My comparisons with the EDG was with the top premium (alphas) and I feel it falls in that category, that’s just one optics geeks opinion. I’ve also compared the EDG to the, what many consider just under alpha if you will, and thats binos in $900-1200 range which is where the Genesis line is.

There are other possibilities when a $1000 optic is performing like an over $2000 optic. Age , how it was taken care (the elements) how much it’s been out and so on, can all have an effect. it certainly does say a lot about how good the Genesis is.

To be clear im not knocking the Genesis, I think they are a phenomenal binoculars for the price point and punch above their weight. It’s only my experience that the EDG is in another class.

The EDG did not come back in the same way, but the problems I had (loose hinge, creeping diopter and loose armoring) got rather soon worse again.

I think Nikon EDG is a fantastic binocular, but to me the Kowa Genesis 8,5x44 is in the same class as the EDG. I just think they have different strengths and weaknesses. Some of the strenghts and weaknesses are of course subjective opinions, but others are facts. The total points I have given Nikon EDG and Kowa Genesis above does not lie, but some points in some categories might be able to be adjusted slightly. But that will not change the fact that Kowa Genesis gets a higher total score than Nikon EDG. If I dont give the binoculars points and just compare which one who wins each category I think Kowa Genesis 8,5x44 vs Nikon EDG 8x42 would be something like 17-9.

I do not know why you think the EDG is in another class than the Kowa Genesis 8,5x44. What are you basing it on? I have them both and have had time to compare them side by side for a couple of weeks..and I have also owned and used the EDG for 11 years and the Kowa Genesis 8,5x44 for about one year. This is the second time I own a Genesis 8,5x44 binocular.

I will do some comments about some of the categories in my list. If we start with the price. In Sweden the Kowa is about the half price compared to the EDG.

Build quality? I have mentioned the problems I have had with the EDG..loose hinge, creeping diopter, lens protection falling off, armoring that has bubbles, inreliable focuser and also the rubber around the focus wheel that fell off. The Kowa seems to be better build, but only time will tell.

Armoring? The Kowa armoring is thicker and the whole binocular is armored. That is not the case with the EDG.

Focuser? The EDG focuser can be silky smooth..and if it is an speciman without any focuser issues..the EDG focuser is one of the absolutely best out there. But on my speciman the focuser is not perfect, so I can not give the EDG high points in that category. The Kowa has an almost perfect focus wheel. Maybe it will get a little bit stiff in cold weather, but other than that it is perfect.

In my hands? Both feels great in my hands, but the Kowa feels just a little bit better (its longer and thinner).

Eye relief? It is very good on the EDG and the EDG is easier on the eye for me with spectacles.

Field of view? The Kowa has a smaller FOV on paper, but in practical use it is not a big issue with the Kowa. You have to remember that the Kowa has 8,5x magnification and not only 8x.

Sweetspot? Thanks to a larger field of view and sharper edges the EDG also have a larger sweetspot.

Center charpness? Both binoculars are sharp enough, but I see details better with the Kowa (much because of higher magnification and higher contrast of course).

Edge-to-edge sharpness? The EDG is clearly the winner here. I gave the Kowa 0 points in that categorie. Maybe it would be fair to give it 1 point and the EDG 3 points instead of 0 and 2.

Brightness? If I just take a quick look in the two binoculars the EDG seems to be brighter than the Kowa, but I have compared them in a really dark room and the Kowa showed more details than the EDG. I got the same result when I compared them outside on a dark night for some days ago.

Contrast? I do not know if time (my EDG is 11 years old and the Kowa is new) have affected the contrast, but to my eyes the Kowa has higher contrast than the EDG. No contest at all.

Backlight? I have not compared them very much, but I have no issues at all when using the Kowa near the sun or in backlight. No flare..nothing. The EDG is also very good, but with the EDG I sometimes can see some internal flare. My experience with the EDG is that it can be hard to ID birds in backlight. My old Nikon 8x32 SE is much better in those situations..and I think it is the case with the Kowa also (because of the better contrast).

Colour neutrality? Both are really good, but not 100% perfect. The EDG is a little bit warmer and the Kowa is a little bit colder.

Color saturation? Both binoculars have rather saturated colors, but to my eyes the Kowa seems to be more saturated. Maybe the higher contrast make the colors pop up a little bit more than with the EDG.

Rolling ball? I can not se any rolling ball in the EDG..and not much in the Kowa either. Maybe my eyes have get used to the rolling ball in the Kowa now..because I thought the rolling ball issue was more pronounced when I first tried the binocular. But since then I have changed the diopter setting to the right position for my eyes..so I have a much more relaxed view now when panning than before.

CA? The EDG deffinitely show more CA than the Kowa Genesis 8,5x44 in normal situations. The Kowa is not free from CA in all situations, but in some normal birding situations where the EDG shows cromatic aberration the Kowa is free from it.

Weather protection? I do not know how good the Kowa is, but I know that the EDG is perfect. Sometimes I flush the optics under the water tap and I have never had any issues. So the Nikon has great weather protection. I did the same with a Swarovski SLC 8x42, but it fogged up...

 

[Paultricounty]

The EDG did not come back in the same way, but the problems I had (loose hinge, creeping diopter and loose armoring) got rather soon worse again.

I think Nikon EDG is a fantastic binocular, but to me the Kowa Genesis 8,5x44 is in the same class as the EDG. I just think they have different strengths and weaknesses. Some of the strenghts and weaknesses are of course subjective opinions, but others are facts. The total points I have given Nikon EDG and Kowa Genesis above does not lie, but some points in some categories might be able to be adjusted slightly. But that will not change the fact that Kowa Genesis gets a higher total score than Nikon EDG. If I dont give the binoculars points and just compare which one who wins each category I think Kowa Genesis 8,5x44 vs Nikon EDG 8x42 would be something like 17-9.

I do not know why you think the EDG is in another class than the Kowa Genesis 8,5x44. What are you basing it on? I have them both and have had time to compare them side by side for a couple of weeks..and I have also owned and used the EDG for 11 years and the Kowa Genesis 8,5x44 for about one year. This is the second time I own a Genesis 8,5x44 binocular.

I will do some comments about some of the categories in my list. If we start with the price. In Sweden the Kowa is about the half price compared to the EDG.

Build quality? I have mentioned the problems I have had with the EDG..loose hinge, creeping diopter, lens protection falling off, armoring that has bubbles, inreliable focuser and also the rubber around the focus wheel that fell off. The Kowa seems to be better build, but only time will tell.

Armoring? The Kowa armoring is thicker and the whole binocular is armored. That is not the case with the EDG.

Focuser? The EDG focuser can be silky smooth..and if it is an speciman without any focuser issues..the EDG focuser is one of the absolutely best out there. But on my speciman the focuser is not perfect, so I can not give the EDG high points in that category. The Kowa has an almost perfect focus wheel. Maybe it will get a little bit stiff in cold weather, but other than that it is perfect.

In my hands? Both feels great in my hands, but the Kowa feels just a little bit better (its longer and thinner).

Eye relief? It is very good on the EDG and the EDG is easier on the eye for me with spectacles.

Field of view? The Kowa has a smaller FOV on paper, but in practical use it is not a big issue with the Kowa. You have to remember that the Kowa has 8,5x magnification and not only 8x.

Sweetspot? Thanks to a larger field of view and sharper edges the EDG also have a larger sweetspot.

Center charpness? Both binoculars are sharp enough, but I see details better with the Kowa (much because of higher magnification and higher contrast of course).

Edge-to-edge sharpness? The EDG is clearly the winner here. I gave the Kowa 0 points in that categorie. Maybe it would be fair to give it 1 point and the EDG 3 points instead of 0 and 2.

Brightness? If I just take a quick look in the two binoculars the EDG seems to be brighter than the Kowa, but I have compared them in a really dark room and the Kowa showed more details than the EDG. I got the same result when I compared them outside on a dark night for some days ago.

Contrast? I do not know if time (my EDG is 11 years old and the Kowa is new) have affected the contrast, but to my eyes the Kowa has higher contrast than the EDG. No contest at all.

Backlight? I have not compared them very much, but I have no issues at all when using the Kowa near the sun or in backlight. No flare..nothing. The EDG is also very good, but with the EDG I sometimes can see some internal flare. My experience with the EDG is that it can be hard to ID birds in backlight. My old Nikon 8x32 SE is much better in those situations..and I think it is the case with the Kowa also (because of the better contrast).

Colour neutrality? Both are really good, but not 100% perfect. The EDG is a little bit warmer and the Kowa is a little bit colder.

Color saturation? Both binoculars have rather saturated colors, but to my eyes the Kowa seems to be more saturated. Maybe the higher contrast make the colors pop up a little bit more than with the EDG.

Rolling ball? I can not se any rolling ball in the EDG..and not much in the Kowa either. Maybe my eyes have get used to the rolling ball in the Kowa now..because I thought the rolling ball issue was more pronounced when I first tried the binocular. But since then I have changed the diopter setting to the right position for my eyes..so I have a much more relaxed view now when panning than before.

CA? The EDG deffinitely show more CA than the Kowa Genesis 8,5x44 in normal situations. The Kowa is not free from CA in all situations, but in some normal birding situations where the EDG shows cromatic aberration the Kowa is free from it.

Weather protection? I do not know how good the Kowa is, but I know that the EDG is perfect. Sometimes I flush the optics under the water tap and I have never had any issues. So the Nikon has great weather protection. I did the same with a Swarovski SLC 8x42, but it fogged up...

Good read 👍

 

[[email protected]]

I have the EDG 8x42. When the focus wheel on my EDG works it is silky smooth, but when its cold it become stiff. Sometimes it goes from smooth to have a little play..and sometimes it happens that the wheel "go up" so the "diopter wheel" is exposed. There is also a risk that the diopter setting change when focusing..even when the diopter wheel is hidden. The focus wheel on the Kowa is very good..the wheel it self is large, has a surface that give a good grip, the placement of the wheel is perfect for me and it has a nice feel when focusing. Its rather fast too!

That is because the EDG uses grease in their focuser to achieve the exceptional smoothness. I have heard from people that disassembled the focuser on an EDG that they are loaded with grease. The downside is they don't work well in cold weather like a greaseless focuser on a Leica.

 

[[email protected]]

I tried the Kowa Genesis 8.5x44, and I liked it, except the AFOV was a little small small for me. I tend to prefer a minimum of a 60 degree AFOV or more and the Kowa at 59.5 degrees is just a little on the narrow side plus it had a small sweet spot. Other than that, it is a nice binocular with great CA control.