Laser pointers (1 Viewer)

[iraqbabbler]

So what if you don't get to see a bird ?. Birding is supposed to be an enjoyable hobby, not a selfish practice of extreme vanity. I see birding as a lifelong adventure of discovery about birds, and in any discovery one can miss out on certain stuff.

I think even pointing a light near or around a bird is likely to disturb/distract it as it would still see an unnatural beam pointing around.

The same goes for playback of bird calls.

I watch birds because I LIKE birds, and therefore I CARE about their welfare.

 

[Mysticete]

yeah, but you are assuming a laser pointer is somehow hurting the birds. As long as you are not trying to blind a bird, I doubt it causes much of any problems at all.

 

[pete wragg]

Not so sure Pete. I think most people would have waited until they came home to their computers and moaned about it.

Regards,
Andrew.

That's what I meant.

 

[Farnboro John]

There are some implacable opinions being passed around here.

Where a small group of people are trying to see a bird, if using a laser pointer in the sensible fashion means they see it quicker and move on, disturbance is minimised.

I very much doubt birds see "an unnatural beam" - what, like a Star Wars laser weapon's beam? Light sabre? I can't see a beam from a laser pointer, just the spot it makes on a surface. I rather think its the same for birds. I imagine spots of sunlight fall on branches quite often beneath the canopy.

I have a similar level of doubt about the use of flash, as claims it is unnatural require one to believe a bird or animal has never seen lightning.

Some people are determined to diss anything they don't use themselves, be it DSLRs, laser pointers, flashguns, 4WD, mealworms or almost anything else you can think of. No doubt their ancestors yelled from the trees "You'll be sooorry!" at the apes heading out onto the savanna.

John

 

[temmie]

So what if you don't get to see a bird ?. Birding is supposed to be an enjoyable hobby, not a selfish practice of extreme vanity. I see birding as a lifelong adventure of discovery about birds, and in any discovery one can miss out on certain stuff.

I think even pointing a light near or around a bird is likely to disturb/distract it as it would still see an unnatural beam pointing around.

The same goes for playback of bird calls.

I watch birds because I LIKE birds, and therefore I CARE about their welfare.

What would be selfish about pointing out a bird to your fellow birder with a laser?
On almost every birding trip, after searching for hours for a certain bird, there is the occasion when someone is the first to find that particular bird while the rest of the party is some meters to several 100ths of meters away. So what do you do? In my case, I immediately start making gestures to my fellow traveling birders / companions, and most of the time, a hidden Usain Bolt talent is rapidly developing in those people. As soon as they arrived, I use the pointer and within seconds everybody is on the bird, relieved, and high fives all around. Sometimes that particular bird flies off within seconds to be never seen again. Can you imagine what would happen if I would be explaining for seconds and minutes where certain bird is, hopping from branch to branch somewhere in the canopy with dozens of similar trees / branches where my fellow birders are looking to? I can assure you it would be very frustrating. Life goes on of course, but a laser pointer is a very effective way of sharing the joy of birdwatching within a group of people.

Same story at a Eurasian Scops Owl twitch in the Netherlands. It was calling at dusk and there was a big group of twitchers / birders. I was one of the few people scanning the tree as I don't want to just hear the bird, but also see it (a lot of people were happy just hearing the owl). As soon as I said I had it in my binoculars, someone gave me a laser, I pointed 2 mtrs below the owl (same branch) and said to follow the branch 2 mtrs up. Everybody saw the owl for minutes at a time before it got too dark. Everybody was very very happy. The laser resulted in excellent views for everybody. Without a laser, I would have gotten some people on the bird before it got too dark, and most people searching and getting frustrated.

 

[COLOMBIA Birding]

Apparently some birds on Madagascar follow the spots around, but South American birds don't!

ey Xenospiza, toucans and woodcreepers do like to chase the green light and try to eat it even...

I am curious about what you mention on Madagascar birds... anything additional you can share about it (heading there for my first time in less than a month!!!)?

THANKS!

 

[MTem]

I see no problem with the correct use of lasers, and have seen them used responsibly to great effect to get others (and me) onto a bird with no impact on the bird at all.

Of course it is possible to misuse a whole range of 'legitimate' birding gear, lasers included if you are irresponsible, inexperienced or just selfish and thoughtless. Cameras and associated lenses for example - and I say this as a novice photographer. I've seen several for whom the welfare of the bird is way secondary in the quest for a better photo...... and a few without a camera just trying to get a better view. That's before we get onto tape playing ......

Placing bird feeders way out in the open so you can get a better view, but significantly increasing the risk to the birds is another more common, more significant issue in my view for example.

Mick

 

[Barred Wobbler]

I see no problem with the correct use of lasers, and have seen them used responsibly to great effect to get others (and me) onto a bird with no impact on the bird at all.

Of course it is possible to misuse a whole range of 'legitimate' birding gear, lasers included if you are irresponsible, inexperienced or just selfish and thoughtless. Cameras and associated lenses for example - and I say this as a novice photographer. I've seen several for whom the welfare of the bird is way secondary in the quest for a better photo...... and a few without a camera just trying to get a better view. That's before we get onto tape playing ......

Placing bird feeders way out in the open so you can get a better view, but significantly increasing the risk to the birds is another more common, more significant issue in my view for example.

Mick

An interesting one that, Mick. Feeders out in the open probably increase the risk of predation on the individual birds using them by predators such as sparrowhawks, but do they actually increase the risk of the local bird population as a whole?

The local sparrowhawk may turn up at the fast-food outlet that is such a feeding station, but had the station been closer to bushes and his attack foiled, then he wouldn't have gone hungry. He'd have gone to patrol some trees and bushes nearby, flushed another chunk of feathered food and 'bang!' a ball of floating feathers and the local passerine population would have been down by one individual anyway.

Just a thought that came to me reading your post.

Cats of course are a different matter, but I don't want to stir that nest.

 

[MTem]

An interesting one that, Mick. Feeders out in the open probably increase the risk of predation on the individual birds using them by predators such as sparrowhawks, but do they actually increase the risk of the local bird population as a whole?

The local sparrowhawk may turn up at the fast-food outlet that is such a feeding station, but had the station been closer to bushes and his attack foiled, then he wouldn't have gone hungry. He'd have gone to patrol some trees and bushes nearby, flushed another chunk of feathered food and 'bang!' a ball of floating feathers and the local passerine population would have been down by one individual anyway.

Just a thought that came to me reading your post.

Cats of course are a different matter, but I don't want to stir that nest.

It was the increased stress level as much, if not more, than the risk of actual predation (or consequently flying into windows) that was in my mind. The visitors to my feeders regularly interrupt their feeding to flee en masse into the nearby bushes, predator or not. It seems therefore the further from such sanctuary, the greater the anxiety/stress on the birds - I was just reflecting that for all our oft stated 'the birds come first' in this widely done practice do we REALLY think of the birds welfare ahead of our own.

I know when I did have a seed hanging feeder located outside my study window, but 5m or so from dense cover a lot of birds either aborted halfway and returned to cover, or came and left without collecting anything. Great for me but not for them I concluded. Rarely did any actually stay to feed (apart from the GSW).

I then moved it to another place where I need binoculars to see what's feeding, but 1m from dense cover, and not only do I get more species (inc. coal tit and marsh tit) but they will often stay and feed.

Not a scientific study, just my personal observation.

My point was if bird welfare is really a concern of yours, perhaps starting closer to home might yield more benefit than fretting about lasers.......:smoke:

Mick

 

[Barred Wobbler]

Agreed.

'Garden' birds like a bit of cover nearby.

Waders and other open-ground birds like to see what's going on at a distance.

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Egret]

How did we build an Empire?

"Just that british birders seem to find different things acceptable when they're abroad." As do British non-birders - how do you think we built an Empire? ;-)

Sorry, that is just wrong. Most of our population were treated in exactly the same way as we treated the rest of the world. Try reading "The White Slaves of England" or anything on the Clearances and Enclosures etc.

 

[Mike Crawley]

Sorry, that is just wrong. Most of our population were treated in exactly the same way as we treated the rest of the world. Try reading "The White Slaves of England" or anything on the Clearances and Enclosures etc.

I think you might be suffering from irony impairment, egret

 

[stuartvine]

Sorry, that is just wrong. Most of our population were treated in exactly the same way as we treated the rest of the world. Try reading "The White Slaves of England" or anything on the Clearances and Enclosures etc.

I apologise for triggering your knee-jerk dogmatism, that was meant to be mildly humorous, not an attempt to make any form of historical point. If I wanted to make historical points I'd have stuck with my old profession - archaeologist and historian.