• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Latest IOC Diary Updates (2 Viewers)

Mindoro CuckooshrikeCoracina mindorensisADDASBar-bellied CuckooshrikeMindoro Cuckooshrike Coracina mindorensis is split from Bar-bellied Cuckooshrike C. striata based on striking differences in vocalizations and plumage.
Visayan CuckooshrikeCoracina panayensisADDASMindoro CuckooshrikeVisayan Cuckooshrike Coracina panayensis is split from Bar-bellied Cuckooshrike C. striata based on differences in morphology and vocalizations (del Hoyo & Collar 2016; Allen 2020; HBW/BirdLife).
Sulu CuckooshrikeCoracina guillemardiADDASVisayan CuckooshrikeSulu Cuckooshrike Coracina guillemardi is split from Bar-bellied Cuckooshrike C. striata based on differences in morphology and vocalizations supported by limited mtDNA analysis (Jønsson et al. 2008, 2010),
 
Markus Lagerqvist said:
Mindoro CuckooshrikeCoracina mindorensisADDASBar-bellied CuckooshrikeMindoro Cuckooshrike Coracina mindorensis is split from Bar-bellied Cuckooshrike C. striata based on striking differences in vocalizations and plumage.
Visayan CuckooshrikeCoracina panayensisADDASMindoro CuckooshrikeVisayan Cuckooshrike Coracina panayensis is split from Bar-bellied Cuckooshrike C. striata based on differences in morphology and vocalizations (del Hoyo & Collar 2016; Allen 2020; HBW/BirdLife).
Sulu CuckooshrikeCoracina guillemardiADDASVisayan CuckooshrikeSulu Cuckooshrike Coracina guillemardi is split from Bar-bellied Cuckooshrike C. striata based on differences in morphology and vocalizations supported by limited mtDNA analysis (Jønsson et al. 2008, 2010),
Click to expand...
Are these three monotypic?
 
When in Nepal 2006 I saw what at the time was Great Tit race nipalensis, I'm currently inputting my lists onto iGoterra but Great Tit isn't on there for Nepal or listed on IOC can anybody tell me what this would be class under now.

Cheers Dave.
 
MacKinlay's Cuckoo-DoveMacropygia mackinlayiSpot-breasted Cuckoo-DoveRestore original English name Spot-breasted Cuckoo-Dove (IOC 1.0-2.1) to Macropygia mackinlayi. Examination of letters and his diary signed by the subject of the eponym, and other contemporary documents, show that he actually spelled his surname as "McKinlay" contra the species epithet and the spelling of his name by Ramsay in the OD. Restoration of the descriptive adjective reduces confusion.
 
Jeff Hopkins said:
I saw the Goldfinch in Uzbekistan! But I'm not sure that I can figure out a way to add it to the "name a bird" thread. Any ideas how to link it to Scaly Spurfowl?

Would I also be correct in assuming that birds seen around Big Almaty Lake in Kazakhstan would also be "Eastern"?
Click to expand...
Xenospiza said:
Yes, at Big Almaty Lake the are Grey-crowned Goldfinches as well.
Click to expand...
Still class as European after the split on the IOC website which as left me a little confused.
 
Viktor Björkert said:
MacKinlay's Cuckoo-DoveMacropygia mackinlayiSpot-breasted Cuckoo-DoveRestore original English name Spot-breasted Cuckoo-Dove (IOC 1.0-2.1) to Macropygia mackinlayi. Examination of letters and his diary signed by the subject of the eponym, and other contemporary documents, show that he actually spelled his surname as "McKinlay" contra the species epithet and the spelling of his name by Ramsay in the OD. Restoration of the descriptive adjective reduces confusion.
Click to expand...

Interesting that "confusion" did not stop someone from finding his dates... (Or could this type of spelling variation not be of a nature making it susceptible to induce that much confusion after all ? When asked for one variant, Google has no problems returning instances of the other.)

Death notice from the British Medical Journal, 1924 :

1711707885113.png

(He collected the cuckoo-dove while being with the Nymphe.)

Note that Ramsay wrote his name Mackinlay : if IOC wrote it MacKinlay, this was already half the way towards being right.
 
l_raty said:
Interesting that "confusion" did not stop someone from finding his dates... (Or could this type of spelling variation not be of a nature making it susceptible to induce that much confusion after all ? When asked for one variant, Google has no problems returning instances of the other.)

Death notice from the British Medical Journal, 1924 :

View attachment 1568440

(He collected the cuckoo-dove while being with the Nymphe.)

Note that Ramsay wrote his name Mackinlay : if IOC wrote it MacKinlay, this was already half the way towards being right.
Click to expand...
It shouldn't be McKinlay ?
 
Jim LeNomenclatoriste said:
It shouldn't be McKinlay ?
Click to expand...

Ramsay wrote it Mackinlay in the OD; IOC writes it MacKinlay, it now appears it should have been McKinlay. The question is, are such variations susceptible to create "confusion" to the extent that they would now justify a decision to butcher a name (which is in prevailing use) entirely...?

Repeated name changes with dodgy / bad / no justification feed the narrative according to which bird names change all the time for whatever reason. This narrative, in turn, encourages people in some quarters to perceive the dropping of hundreds of names for mere reasons of vague political correctness as being OK.
In today's world, we should refrain from doing this.
 
Last edited:
I suspect it's only recently that people make a firm distinction between Mac and Mc. Before people had a need to use their surname regularly it was probably interchangeable. All variants derive from the Gaellic Mac. Directories traditionally put Mc/Mac before Ma in alphabetical listings so the c/ac is effectively treated as a separate letter, which can be written either way.

I learnt that Mac was Scottish and Mc Irish, but this distinction doesn't turn out to be true. Nor does the association of Mc with Catholics. Mc might be more common in Ireland, though, which lends some weak support to McKinlay.
 
I prefer the chosen solution: it mentions an actual distinguishing feature in this very homogeneous genus! However, the eponymic name has been used in field guides much longer. In Beehler's Birds of New Guinea from 1986, it is called Mackinlay's Cuckoo-Dove. Only Coates & Peckover (2001) mention Spot-breasted as an alternative name.
 
Jacana said:
"Butcher" is a very emotive term this name change. Afterall, it has only been in use by the IOC for about 14 years (name changed from Spot-breasted in version 2.2).
Click to expand...

Name changed in Aug 2009, which means IOC had used it for a grand 3 years in total (Gill & Wright 2006 was published in Aug 2006, fide Amazon), before dropping it, citing :
Gregory, P.A. 2009. Birds of New Guinea and its offshore islands; a checklist. Sicklebill Publications No.2, Kuranda​
...i.e., actual usage in the literature.
Why, exactly, should (a short) former use by IOC be given any particular weight in this type of argument...? In the rest of the world, Spot-breasted was apparently created in the 1980s; its use in the entire 20th C was marginal at best, while Mackinlay's was all over the place.
 
Sorry to derail yet another eponymous name debate, but has anyone else noticed that IOC lists are currently showing only 'Genus' & 'species' instead of the actual, you know - genus & species? o_0
 

Similar threads

J
Convergence of IOC, Clements and BirdLife Taxonomies?
2
Replies
26
Views
3K
awiner
awiner
Andy Adcock
Anglisisation on the IOC
Replies
5
Views
1K
Mysticete
Mysticete
G
  • Article
Pigeon- Counting In Leith
Replies
0
Views
290
Green Sandpiper
G
Troubador
Interview with Zeiss Senior Optical Scientist
Replies
1
Views
3K
Chris73
C
Troubador
Interview with Zeiss Senior Optical Scientist
3 4 5
Replies
86
Views
15K
RandyBo
R

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 3 (members: 0, guests: 3)
Back
Top