Marsh or Willow Tit, 23rd February 2007. Moore Nature Reserve, Cheshire, England. (1 Viewer)

[wally170]

This little guy had me going.

Personally I think it's a Willow Tit, for the following reasons.
- Pale Wing 'bar'
- Looks a bit 'bull-headed' to me
- I'm not lucky enough for it to be Marsh

Reasons it could be Marsh
-Was feeding from a bird table (Collins say thats a guide, but I think it's rubbish, I have seen Willow's on a Bird table)
- Small bib
- It was very bold, again a Collins point, but this bird was so close I couldn't digi-scope it, I had to use my compact camera on it's own. It was within 4 feet most of the time.

I have read through a few of the other posts an I am still undecided.
I didn't hear it call.

Thanks for your help
Wally

 

[marklhawkes]

Most of these threads usually involve Marsh Tits - but that looks like a Willow Tit to me. Await others opinions

 

[PaulK]

I'd have to say willow as well. Looks bull-headed and appears to have a bit of a wing bar.

 

[IanF]

Must admit everything says Willow to me. Never easy to be sure though.

We seem to be around 50/50 in my area between Marsh/Willow.

 

[vwxyzen]

It's a Willow Tit.

The Bull-headed look and size of black bib can be rather subjective at times but the pale wing-panel when seen as well as it is in the first picture clinches identification. Marsh Tit can show pale edges but not to the extent of forming a panel like this.

The myth of Willow Tits not coming to feeders has been well and truly ended. Willow Tit is commonly recorded from feeders around West Yorkshire now.

 

[bitterntwisted]

Favouring Willow for the reasons above but I'll do my usual and ask for more pictures if you have any?

 

[Jane Turner]

Last week there were two Willow Tits visiting the feeding station at Moore. One really bright bird and a duller one, rather like this one. They were the first capped tits i had seen in about 10 years!

 

[IanF]

.....................The myth of Willow Tits not coming to feeders has been well and truly ended. Willow Tit is commonly recorded from feeders around West Yorkshire now.

For years and years Willow Tit have been visiting the feeders at Low Barns in County Durham, often alongside Marsh Tit. It's the best spot I know for seeing them side by side.

 

[wally170]

Favouring Willow for the reasons above but I'll do my usual and ask for more pictures if you have any?

I have more pictures, but they are either on Digital zoom (so pixelation is dreadful) or the thing is behind a twig.

I will see if I can find any that would help, but with the points already posted I'm settling for Willow. That was my gut instinct, I was just hoping for Marsh (based mainly on the small bib).

Thanks
Wally

 

[wally170]

For years and years Willow Tit have been visiting the feeders at Low Barns in County Durham, often alongside Marsh Tit. It's the best spot I know for seeing them side by side.

I had 2 side by side at Bodelwyddan last year, ID is easy when the 2 are stood next to each other on a bird table.

Looks like I will be heading back there for a Marsh again. At least Willow is a year tick

Wally

 

[vwxyzen]

For years and years Willow Tit have been visiting the feeders at Low Barns in County Durham, often alongside Marsh Tit. It's the best spot I know for seeing them side by side.

I don't know where it started but the Collins guide states bizarrely " Willow Tit - Not seen at birdtables in winter".

 

[IanF]

I think Collins was first published in 1999 and not revised as regards content. I've been visiting Low Barns since at least the 1980's and both species have always visited the feeders which are only filled over winter.

Personally I think whilst Collins is probably the best field guide we have it's a bit behind the times in a few areas. Bird Watching is far more open/popular now than it was back then and much more information is more widely available now - you only need look at Bird Forum

 

[dantheman]

I don't know where it started but the Collins guide states bizarrely " Willow Tit - Not seen at birdtables in winter".

Ironically i was flicking through old copies of Birdwatch last night for the id articles and read a review of the collins from about when it first came out. (although of course I can't relocate the review now).
The reviewer picked up on this point, saying it was maybe something to do with the Scandinavian influence on the publication. . .

 

[wally170]

Here are 2 more

First is on full Digi-Zoom and hand held, so not the best picture in the world. 2nd is the same but without the zoom (if it helps)

Wally

 

[The sniper]

that is definatly a willow

 

[tarzzz]

Willow for me. "Big" head.

//Ben

 

[bitterntwisted]

Here are 2 more

First is on full Digi-Zoom and hand held, so not the best picture in the world. 2nd is the same but without the zoom (if it helps)

Wally

Even I'm convinced. Head is huge at all angles. Willow.

 

[wally170]

ta folks,

Mental note - Willow has *HUGE* head

 

[KnockerNorton]

I'm just checking outside for a blue moon, as this is a Willow Tit (for a change).

This 'bib' thing is still cropping up as a citation for/against marsh/willow. The bib is of no real use as a field characteristic. Neither is behaviour - both species act exactly the same regarding tameness, bird tables etc. Both are very bold species, and both love sunflower seeds at feeding stations.

Best id feature on this bird is the plain off-white cheek and warm buff tones on the underparts. Also the biggish looking head and clear pale edges to secondaries.

 

[Farnboro John]

I agree about the plainness of the cheek, seems to me Marsh always has the rear cheek more coloured, giving a two-tone cheek. I've heard it quoted before that Willow's cap spreads at the rear of the nape, sideways onto the mantle. You can see that on this bird but perhaps someone will say they've seen that on Marsh as well?

John