Michael Frankis
conehead
peteh said:
Spud - he was first to clearly rule out Caspian, I'm sure he'll appreciate a B
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Mystery Gull? (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter jpoyner
- Start date
Spud - he was first to clearly rule out Caspian, I'm sure he'll appreciate a B
CJW
Hit-and-run WUM
Michael Frankis said:
Whilst spud clearly said it wasn't a Caspian, I don't think that is enough for peteh to send his money to him. Telling us what it isn't is not the same as telling us what it is. Which no-one has yet.
As soon as I saw the photo I said to myself "that's no Long-eared Owl", couldn't say what it is though.
Excellent discussion though chaps.
Hi all,
Despite having a similar mantle shade to michahellis Yellow-legged Gull,and a bright bill(but within the range of Herring or LBB),I don't think that this bird is a Yellow-legged.
It obviously isn't a Caspian either!
The most likely possibility is graellsii LBB x argenteus Herring,but there may be a slim chance of genetic input from michahellis at some stage in the bird's ancestry(probably not,though)
CJW:I'm sure that you know that some gulls are best left unidentified,even by the real experts?(I'm not one!)
Harry H
Despite having a similar mantle shade to michahellis Yellow-legged Gull,and a bright bill(but within the range of Herring or LBB),I don't think that this bird is a Yellow-legged.
It obviously isn't a Caspian either!
The most likely possibility is graellsii LBB x argenteus Herring,but there may be a slim chance of genetic input from michahellis at some stage in the bird's ancestry(probably not,though)
CJW:I'm sure that you know that some gulls are best left unidentified,even by the real experts?(I'm not one!)
Harry H
Hi Pete,
Yes, the mantle tone is too dark for most Caspian Gulls, at least those from the western part of the range which tend to be the ones that occur in western Europe (so-called 'ponticus' types), these are often not much darker than British Herring Gulls. Caspian Gulls from further east in Asia may be this dark but there is little indication that they disperse westwards.
The main anti-Caspian feature here is the bill which is relatively too short and stout and also much more brightly coloured than that of most Caspians.
In overall structure this bird doesn't really look dissimilar to most large gull species (which are a pretty homogenous bunch)whereas the most characteristic looking Caspians have a bizarre jizz that even recalls an outsize Slender-billed Gull due to a long sloping forehead and long slightly drooping bill. Most Capsian Gulls also have dark eyes.
Hang onto your cash and put it towards a decent gull guide when one comes out....
Spud
Yes, the mantle tone is too dark for most Caspian Gulls, at least those from the western part of the range which tend to be the ones that occur in western Europe (so-called 'ponticus' types), these are often not much darker than British Herring Gulls. Caspian Gulls from further east in Asia may be this dark but there is little indication that they disperse westwards.
The main anti-Caspian feature here is the bill which is relatively too short and stout and also much more brightly coloured than that of most Caspians.
In overall structure this bird doesn't really look dissimilar to most large gull species (which are a pretty homogenous bunch)whereas the most characteristic looking Caspians have a bizarre jizz that even recalls an outsize Slender-billed Gull due to a long sloping forehead and long slightly drooping bill. Most Capsian Gulls also have dark eyes.
Hang onto your cash and put it towards a decent gull guide when one comes out....
Spud
jpoyner
Well-known member
I agree that a lot of photos I have seen of Caspian do have this distinctive jizz. However, go look at the photos on the link below just to confuse things even more...females can be quite different.
The authors of that Gull guide are going to have a big task on their hands!!!!
JP
http://www.martinreid.com/cachp18.html
The authors of that Gull guide are going to have a big task on their hands!!!!
JP
http://www.martinreid.com/cachp18.html
Personally I'd have called that a barabensis (as Martin Reid himself acknowledges), Caspian Gull normally has much, much longer legs than this bird. If it is a Caspian Gull it just as likely to be a nominate cachinnans as a 'ponticus' type , the location alone may make the former more likely. The fact that it is difficult enough to identify some of these birds in the places where they should occur indicates the extreme difficulty of identifying them in places where they shouldn't!
Martin Reid's website:
http://www.martinreid.com/gullinx.htm
is a very useful resource for those foolish enough to take a deep interest in the identification of large gulls though it is always worth bearing in mind that the identity of a fair proportion of the trickier individuals shown is somewhat speculative.
Spud
Martin Reid's website:
http://www.martinreid.com/gullinx.htm
is a very useful resource for those foolish enough to take a deep interest in the identification of large gulls though it is always worth bearing in mind that the identity of a fair proportion of the trickier individuals shown is somewhat speculative.
Spud
Grousemore
Senior Member
I've been following this thread with interest and found an informative article on a website of,I think,a Bird Forum member,who I hope doesn't mind me giving a link for anyone who may be interested.
http://www.berksbirds.co.uk/articles/caspiangullid.asp
http://www.berksbirds.co.uk/articles/caspiangullid.asp
