Mystery raptor, Montagu Harrier..? (1 Viewer)

[Freetoes]

Hello!
Me and my mum saw two mystery raptors this Tuesday 24th January at Kinver Edge, Shropshire, bordering Worcestershire.
They were larger than a sparrow hawk, smaller than a buzzard, and very dark brown, almost black, like burnt toast all over, including their heads. Very sleek and beautiful birds. My mum thinks she saw slightly paler banding on the upper part of the wing on the one we saw in flight.
Scouring our bird books and the web, the closest match I could find is the female Montagu Harrier. But that would be out of season and also very rare even if it was in season, by the sounds of it!
Kinver Edge is in Shropshire, on the border with Worcestershire and is a mix of heathland and woodland, mostly oak and silver birches, surrounded by farmland with smaller fields, good hedges and many trees.
We got fantastic views of each bird, it was as we were driving around Kinver Edge, one was sitting in a low branch in a tree right next to the road bordering a field, then it flew low to a nearby tree, then as we were bemoaning how we saw it too quickly to stop, we saw another only about 20ft along, in a low branch just overhanging the road, and we stopped and had a great long look! We were lucky with no traffic! Sadly we got no photos!
We've never seen anything like them before! Does anyone know what they might have been? Has anyone else seen them?

 

[Welsh Peregrine]

I can confirm they would not have been Montague’s Harriers, and indeed the behaviour is wrong for any harrier which usually perched on the ground or on top of a low bush. From the description, which isn’t really giving any useful detail, Sparrowhawk or Buzzard seem most likely, particularly the latter which is very variable in plumage. When they took off, did it seem as though it was an effort for them to start to rise, like a pigeon, or more direct, perhaps like a crow? If you see them again, try to get a better impression of shape, as this is often a better clue, but don’t be disheartened, flying birds of prey are difficult!

 

[PYRTLE]

I second that they were probably Sparrowhawks......possibly Goshawks.

 

[Ernest Garcia]

From the description pf appearance and behaviour I would say that they were probably Common Buzzards, members of a species in which there is considerable variation in size (between sexes) and plumage.

 

[PYRTLE]

From the description pf appearance and behaviour I would say that they were probably Common Buzzards, members of a species in which there is considerable variation in size (between sexes) and plumage.

Even though they are described as " very sleek " and smaller than a Buzzard? Though the behaviour of sitting low in a tree akin to a road is typical of Common Buzzard. Remains a mystery for now.

 

[Richard Prior]

Hello!
Me and my mum saw two mystery raptors this Tuesday 24th January at Kinver Edge, Shropshire, bordering Worcestershire.
They were larger than a sparrow hawk, smaller than a buzzard, and very dark brown, almost black, like burnt toast all over, including their heads. Very sleek and beautiful birds. My mum thinks she saw slightly paler banding on the upper part of the wing on the one we saw in flight.
Scouring our bird books and the web, the closest match I could find is the female Montagu Harrier. But that would be out of season and also very rare even if it was in season, by the sounds of it!
Kinver Edge is in Shropshire, on the border with Worcestershire and is a mix of heathland and woodland, mostly oak and silver birches, surrounded by farmland with smaller fields, good hedges and many trees.
We got fantastic views of each bird, it was as we were driving around Kinver Edge, one was sitting in a low branch in a tree right next to the road bordering a field, then it flew low to a nearby tree, then as we were bemoaning how we saw it too quickly to stop, we saw another only about 20ft along, in a low branch just overhanging the road, and we stopped and had a great long look! We were lucky with no traffic! Sadly we got no photos!
We've never seen anything like them before! Does anyone know what they might have been? Has anyone else seen them?

A bit of a mystery, though Buzzard is the most likely
Welcome to Birdforum by the way!

 

[Ian Byrnes]

I live 5 miles from Kinver & bird there from time to time. Although the description sounds like Common Buzzards of which there are many in that area, it could have been a juvenile Goshawk as they have been spotted occasionally in Kingsford Country Park. which joins on to Kinver Edge. Although I have tried many times to see them, have failed as they are fairly elusive & tend to stay high.
I'll take a trip up there in the morning.

 

[Freetoes]

Hello!
Me and my mum saw two mystery raptors this Tuesday 24th January at Kinver Edge, Shropshire, bordering Worcestershire.
They were larger than a sparrow hawk, smaller than a buzzard, and very dark brown, almost black, like burnt toast all over, including their heads. Very sleek and beautiful birds. My mum thinks she saw slightly paler banding on the upper part of the wing on the one we saw in flight.
Scouring our bird books and the web, the closest match I could find is the female Montagu Harrier. But that would be out of season and also very rare even if it was in season, by the sounds of it!
Kinver Edge is in Shropshire, on the border with Worcestershire and is a mix of heathland and woodland, mostly oak and silver birches, surrounded by farmland with smaller fields, good hedges and many trees.
We got fantastic views of each bird, it was as we were driving around Kinver Edge, one was sitting in a low branch in a tree right next to the road bordering a field, then it flew low to a nearby tree, then as we were bemoaning how we saw it too quickly to stop, we saw another only about 20ft along, in a low branch just overhanging the road, and we stopped and had a great long look! We were lucky with no traffic! Sadly we got no photos!
We've never seen anything like them before! Does anyone know what they might have been? Has anyone else seen them?

Correction: Kinver borders STAFFORDSHIRE not Shropshire! Though Shropshire is not far away! I'm a durrr brain!

 

[Freetoes]

I can confirm they would not have been Montague’s Harriers, and indeed the behaviour is wrong for any harrier which usually perched on the ground or on top of a low bush. From the description, which isn’t really giving any useful detail, Sparrowhawk or Buzzard seem most likely, particularly the latter which is very variable in plumage. When they took off, did it seem as though it was an effort for them to start to rise, like a pigeon, or more direct, perhaps like a crow? If you see them again, try to get a better impression of shape, as this is often a better clue, but don’t be disheartened, flying birds of prey are difficult!

Gosh thanks for replying! Interesting ID tip re perching behaviour! They were both on lowest branches one 6ft ish up, one 10ft ish up, but I'm thinking they don't like trees at all, preferring to be low but on top perhaps? We have a lot of buzzards and sparrowhawks round here, it was very different from those, but I take your point re variation! Interesting to consider! Size and shape of the two birds seemed perfectly between buzzards and sparrowhawks, the one that flew took off very effortlessly, dynamic and agile... neither had the "bulk" of a buzzard, more slender like a kestrel's proportions... gosh I hope we do see them again! I keep looking, with my camera and binocs more handy! Lols birds of prey are definitely tricky! Thanks again so much!

 

[Freetoes]

I can confirm they would not have been Montague’s Harriers, and indeed the behaviour is wrong for any harrier which usually perched on the ground or on top of a low bush. From the description, which isn’t really giving any useful detail, Sparrowhawk or Buzzard seem most likely, particularly the latter which is very variable in plumage. When they took off, did it seem as though it was an effort for them to start to rise, like a pigeon, or more direct, perhaps like a crow? If you see them again, try to get a better impression of shape, as this is often a better clue, but don’t be disheartened, flying birds of prey are difficult!

Gosh thanks for replying! Interesting ID tip re perching behaviour! They were both on lowest branches one 6ft ish up, one 10ft ish up, but I'm thinking they don't like trees at all, preferring to be low but on top perhaps? We have a lot of buzzards and sparrowhawks round here, it was very different from those, but I take your point re variation! Interesting to consider! Size and shape of the two birds seemed perfectly between buzzards and sparrowhawks, the one that flew took off very effortlessly, dynamic and agile... neither had the "bulk" of a buzzard, more slender like a kestrel's proportions... gosh I hope we do see them again! I keep looking, with my camera and binocs more handy! Lols birds of prey are definitely tricky! Thanks again so much!

PS Kinver borders STAFFORDSHIRE, not Shropshire as I put in my post! I've added a note to the post on that! Shropshire isn't far though!

 

[Freetoes]

I second that they were probably Sparrowhawks......possibly Goshawks.

Thank you for that! Goshawks was my first guess but the colouring seemed wrong for male, female or juvenile! We do have them round here! Perhaps they were variant from the usual colours..? Definitely too large and wrong colours for sparrowhawks... its truly intriguing me! I keep my camera and binocs more handy now! PS Kinver borders STAFFORDSHIRE, not Shropshire as I put in my post! I've added a note to my post on that! Shropshire isn't far though!

 

[Freetoes]

From the description pf appearance and behaviour I would say that they were probably Common Buzzards, members of a species in which there is considerable variation in size (between sexes) and plumage.

Ahh that is interesting! Thank you! We are blessed with many buzzards round here! They did seem too small, slender and sleek for buzzards, but I take your point on variation! Thanks so much! Oh PS Kinver borders STAFFORDSHIRE, not Shropshire as I put in my post! I've added a note to my post on that! Shropshire isn't far though!

 

[Freetoes]

Even though they are described as " very sleek " and smaller than a Buzzard? Though the behaviour of sitting low in a tree akin to a road is typical of Common Buzzard. Remains a mystery for now.

Thanks! It truly is mysterious! It's really intriguing me!

 

[Freetoes]

A bit of a mystery, though Buzzard is the most likely
Welcome to Birdforum by the way!

Thanks for replying! It does seem so, they were just so intriguingly different! But nature like to play so variants maybe! Defo a mystery! And aww thanks! It's brilliant! 😄 Ooo PS Kinver borders STAFFORDSHIRE, not Shropshire as I put in my post! I've added a note to my post on that! Shropshire isn't far though!

 

[Freetoes]

I live 5 miles from Kinver & bird there from time to time. Although the description sounds like Common Buzzards of which there are many in that area, it could have been a juvenile Goshawk as they have been spotted occasionally in Kingsford Country Park. which joins on to Kinver Edge. Although I have tried many times to see them, have failed as they are fairly elusive & tend to stay high.
I'll take a trip up there in the morning.

Ahhh we are sooo lucky to live so near Kinver aren't we! Goshawks was my first guess, but the colouring seemed wrong, though perhaps they were variants! I live very near Habberley Valley and Goshawks are listed on the info board as being seen there, I've never seen them there I have to say, but do see what seem like goshawks flying past my garden on Habberley Estate not far from the valley! Occasionally I must add! We've never seen them at kinver either! Thank you sooo much for joining in on this thread! Oooh and PS As you may have noted, Kinver borders STAFFORDSHIRE, not Shropshire as I put in my post! I've added a note to my post on that! Shropshire isn't far though!

 

[Ian Byrnes]

I did go down Kingsford Lane & parked near Kingsford Country Park but didn't see Goshawks but did see 2 Buzzards.
Residents have spoken to me about a Goshawk sighting.. in that area.
Eyemore Wood nr. Trimpley had a Goshawk pr & they are also seen over the Wyre Forest.
Although I haven't been able to get a Goshawk shot I have photographed Buzzards many times. Here's one from 2 days ago at Hill Pool, Chaddesley where I live. We have an abundance of Buzzards in Woodrow & several years ago filmed 18 feeding behind a ploughing tractor.

 

[Freetoes]

I did go down Kingsford Lane & parked near Kingsford Country Park but didn't see Goshawks but did see 2 Buzzards.
Residents have spoken to me about a Goshawk sighting.. in that area.
Eyemore Wood nr. Trimpley had a Goshawk pr & they are also seen over the Wyre Forest.
Although I haven't been able to get a Goshawk shot I have photographed Buzzards many times. Here's one from 2 days ago at Hill Pool, Chaddesley where I live. We have an abundance of Buzzards in Woodrow & several years ago filmed 18 feeding behind a ploughing tractor.

Hello! Gosh that is all very interesting! Thanks! I'm on Habberley Estate on the edge of kidderminster very near Habberley Valley at which there is an info board with all the raptors which have been seen there, and it includes goshawks! That's very close to Trimpley! And I am very sure I've occasionally seen them flying over from my garden! And ohh WoW I'd love to have seen so many Buzzards all at once! That must have been quite a spectacle! PS so sorry it's taken me so long to reply! It's been a crazy busy year so far! 😅