New Swarovski EL? (1 Viewer)

[username]

Huh? "Seeing stuff through them?" Why? I just want to look at them and tell them bedtime stories....

:-O.............i know exactly what you mean!
Thinking about it...when you actually receive these 'the best a man can get' binoculars...i don't think that you should really risk going out with them...they could get dirty:eek!:!

ps....be sure to lovingly 'stroke them' at least every two minutes after arrival...!

 

[kristoffer]

So, for the 10th time. What about the 8x32 version?

 

[username]

So, for the 10th time. What about the 8x32 version?

Wish i could help you kristoffer....i just don't know..[obviously]!

ps....even i might be interested in 32's.........'light-weights' rule...

 

[Sancho]

So, for the 10th time. What about the 8x32 version?

There isn´t any. Neither are there any indications that such will be made. The new 8.5x42 are apparently a bit lighter than the "old" version, and the barrels seem to be slimmer, so maybe swaro reckon they´ve got the light/slim category covered. Or maybe it´s something technical, I don´t know. I used to have 8x32 EL´s, so when these arrive I´ll let you know how they compare.

 

[username]

There isn´t any. Neither are there any indications that such will be made. The new 8.5x42 are apparently a bit lighter than the "old" version, and the barrels seem to be slimmer, so maybe swaro reckon they´ve got the light/slim category covered. Or maybe it´s something technical, I don´t know. I used to have 8x32 EL´s, so when these arrive I´ll let you know how they compare.

This binocular is beginning to sound a bit 'too' good now...'lighter weight' as well...?!! Surely swaro can't have got 'everything' right with this new model...can they?

ps...i'm gettin worried now...[chuckle]...!

 

[kristoffer]

Ok. So, either I buy the old 8x32 or a new 8.5x42. Hmm.

 

[Jim M.]

So, for the 10th time. What about the 8x32 version?

I was told by a local dealer that only the 42 EL is being updated. I don't think that's a guarantee the 32 won't be updated at some time in the future, but, if it is, I think it at least would be after the 42 comes out (assuming the dealer had the correct info anyway).

This binocular is beginning to sound a bit 'too' good now...'lighter weight' as well...?!!

The weight difference is hardlly worth mentioning. According to the Eagle Optics website, the current 8.5x42 is 28.9 oz, and the Swarovision one is 28 oz. Nine tenths of an ounce isn't going to be noticeable.

Best,
Jim

 

[spacepilot]

Just for my own historical reference, was the current 8x32 EL introduced at the same time as the 8.5x42?

Ning

 

[username]

J Moore...thanks for the 'weight' info....i am now not so 'worried'!
In my opinion..swaro will update the 32's...in due course....because let's face it....they have to keep new models coming out don't they?!
Light weight bins are a 'must' for me personally. The weight of the current swaro32El's is just right...and i nearly bought a pair...until i looked thru the nikons....[better contrast in my opinion]....whatever works for the individual tho....!

 

[kristoffer]

What Nikon? EDG?

J Moore...thanks for the 'weight' info....i am now not so 'worried'!
In my opinion..swaro will update the 32's...in due course....because let's face it....they have to keep new models coming out don't they?!
Light weight bins are a 'must' for me personally. The weight of the current swaro32El's is just right...and i nearly bought a pair...until i looked thru the nikons....[better contrast in my opinion]....whatever works for the individual tho....!

 

[brocknroller]

...

Brock, I think your memory of the close focusing of the Octarem is mistaken. There is no change in the focuser speed, but you might be reacting to a little more resistance to focuser movement at close distance. There are some rubber skirts used for sealing inside the eyepiece tubes that act like bellows. They're compressed at infinity focus and offer little resistance to movement, but there's more resistance as they are increasingly stretched at close focus.

Henry,

My memory is fine! But apparently my technical terminology is not.

What you describe above is exactly what I meant, the Octarem's focuser turns with more resistance at close distance, and so I turned the focuser more slowly.

So my impression was as if the focuser speed had changed.

Another bin that did this was the original version Swift 8x42 Ultralite. The focuser would begin to stiffen as you got closer to close focus. Not as smoothly as the Octarem, though. It became somewhat ratchety near the end of focus.

Because I generally observe at close range for birding or at infinity for stargazing with the SE, I never noticed the difference in how fast the SE's focus changed at close range vs. long distance until I went outside on this chilly afternoon and measured the turns of the focuser.

I focused on my neighbor's outdoor plant at close focus (for my sample, that's ~ 9.5 ft) and then on a reflector at the end of the block, which I estimate is about 400 ft. away (~133 yards). The focuser took 1 turn to go that distance.

Moving beyond the reflector, the DOF is very good, and it only takes incremental changes in focus to go to the end of the next block and to the mountain ridge about 10 miles away. So most of the focus movement is within close to medium range.

I think the stiffness of the SE's focuser and the tiny focuser wheel gives the impression of it being slower than it actually is, especially compared to the 8x32 LX's focuser, which only requires small nudges when focusing at close range.

Thanks for clarifying Doug's specs (and also to dalat and Ron). I think I would like the new EL's focuser.

But fat chance of me owning a new EL unless Doug has a blow out sale in a couple years on Swarovision demos for a $1,000 off like he had on the 8x32 FL.

Or perhaps there will be a "steal" on Amart, like this LNIB updated version 10x42 EL for $1, 095.

http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=651598

In the meantime, I will just have to "rough it" with the SEs and EII.

 

[username]

What Nikon? EDG?

The 'older' Nikon 8x32HG's.......[not the following 'L' version]....this is the model i own...at present!
Have no experience of the EDG....

 

[mooreorless]

Dalat is quite right about this.

Change in focus is measured in diopters and the movement of the focuser required to change the focus by 1D is constant over the entire focusing range with all binoculars except a very few that change the gearing ratio at close focus (the only ones I can recall now are the Brunton Epoch series). What isn't constant is the value of a 1 diopter change in focus at different distances. Just now I made some rough measurements using the diopter scale on the right eyepiece of a Nikon 8x32 SE. The total range of focus change from about 6 feet to infinity is around 34D. The first 10D of focus change (about 30% of the total focuser turning required to change from 6' to infinity) is consumed just by moving the focus from 6' to 9'. The next 10D (the next 30% of total turning) moves the focus only to about 15' The next 10 D goes to about 50' and the last 3-4D covers the entire distance from 50' to infinity. If the focusing speeds of different binoculars are to be compared it's essential to set the close focus to precisely the same distance in every case and measure the focuser turns only as far as infinity, not to the mechanical stop beyond infinity.


Henry I understand the reason for checking two binoculars at the same close focus distance to compare how many turns of close focus say 10 ft. to infinity but having read what Brock posted with the link to 24hr. Campfire and I quote >>"Redesigned, smooth and tolerance free focus mechanism – 1 turn to go from infinity to 10 ft. Another full turn to go from 10 ft. to 4.9 ft. This new focusing mechanism allows a correction of vision of at least 6 diopters, in order to compensate for near or far sightedness." <<


So the way I understand it the extra full turn is to allow for this very close focus of 4.9 ft. and someone that with Myopic eyes could possible see closer than the 4.9 ft. I would be able to check the shine on my shoes with this binocular. All and all this is still two turns of the focus wheel.:eek!: BTW that seems like pretty close focus for a 8SE. The 6 diopters vision correction seems to be a plus for this binocular as well. I have noticed that I can focus closer with my 2.0 diopters myopic left eye using binoculars.

Regards,Steve

 

[Alexis Powell]

...the movement of the focuser required to change the focus by 1D is constant over the entire focusing range with all binoculars except a very few that change the gearing ratio at close focus (the only ones I can recall now are the Brunton Epoch series).

Pentax Papilio have a dual-ratio focus.

If the focusing speeds of different binoculars are to be compared it's essential to set the close focus to precisely the same distance in every case and measure the focuser turns only as far as infinity, not to the mechanical stop beyond infinity.

Very true--I sure wish more reviews were explicit and consistent about this. Also, the diameter of the focus knob should be reported because it has a big effect on how a "pull" from one's finger translates to degrees of revolution.


As for the described focus of the new EL, I have to say I'm disappointed. I'd like to have seen a variable-ratio focus in this "no-compromise" bino. I routinely use my binos for butterflying and birding, so I appreciate focus designs that allow for efficient transitions from near to far. In comparison to today's top birding roofs, the new EL focus appears to be average, or on the slow side of average. Like the old 8.5x42 EL, with its slow-ratio 7 foot close focus, it doesn't appear to be a very good choice for butterflying.

Most close-focus bins adjust focus too slowly to be very good for butterflying. The waterproof version of the B&L Elite (with ~4.5 foot close focus) was a notable exception, but the ratio was correspondingly a bit too zippy when used near infinity (same issue with Nikon 8x32 LX/LXL. Thus far, my favorite birding/butterflying bino is the Zeiss 8x32 FL, which focuses from 5 feet to infinity in one revolution of its big, smoothly turning knob. I find it quick yet easy to control at all distances.

--AP

 

[henry link]

Steve,

I was able to focus the SE as close as 6' because I was using only the right side with the diopter adjustment set all the way in the "+" direction. I think your understanding is correct. All the extra focuser travel in the new EL is for achieving a very short close focus. Focusing speed will probably be similar to the current model over an identical focusing range.

Henry

 

[mooreorless]

Hi Henry, Thanks, I missed that, I am a little tired tonight, now I understand the 8SE close focus, I was thinking you were "way" myopic.

I guess now Alexis and Dennis both have the perfect butterfly binocular in the Zeiss 8x32FL. I have no problem with the Nikon 8x32LX at both ends of the focus distance.

Regards,Steve

 

[brocknroller]

Pentax Papilio have a dual-ratio focus.

Very true--I sure wish more reviews were explicit and consistent about this. Also, the diameter of the focus knob should be reported because it has a big effect on how a "pull" from one's finger translates to degrees of revolution.


As for the described focus of the new EL, I have to say I'm disappointed. I'd like to have seen a variable-ratio focus in this "no-compromise" bino. I routinely use my binos for butterflying and birding, so I appreciate focus designs that allow for efficient transitions from near to far. In comparison to today's top birding roofs, the new EL focus appears to be average, or on the slow side of average. Like the old 8.5x42 EL, with its slow-ratio 7 foot close focus, it doesn't appear to be a very good choice for butterflying.

Most close-focus bins adjust focus too slowly to be very good for butterflying. The waterproof version of the B&L Elite (with ~4.5 foot close focus) was a notable exception, but the ratio was correspondingly a bit too zippy when used near infinity (same issue with Nikon 8x32 LX/LXL. Thus far, my favorite birding/butterflying bino is the Zeiss 8x32 FL, which focuses from 5 feet to infinity in one revolution of its big, smoothly turning knob. I find it quick yet easy to control at all distances.

--AP

AP,

That's a hardy recommendation. It makes me want to put the 8x32 FL back on my Wish List, though I would still need to get one in my hands first to try since there's so much disagreement over the edge sharpness.

I found the 8x32 LX's "zippy" focuser challenging at times.

Like Steve (mooreorless), I had no problems with it at close focus or long distance, it was focusing in the middle range that caused me some frustration.

At about the 100-200 ft., the focus was a bit "muddy".

In my first sample, which had some backlash in the focuser, it was just plain unnerving. With the second sample, which had a much more precise focuser, it still didn't "snap to" focus as easily as my porros at medium range.

I would have to purposely overshoot my target and then toggle back to achieve the best focus.

From reading reviews of very close focusing bins, I get the impression that this is the price you pay for that extra close focus, particularly if you don't have good focus accommodation.

The LX close focuses for my eyes at around 6 ft. (through both EPs at the same time .

In making the EL's focus slow at close distance, it would appear that Swaro not only achieved a greater diopter range, but also prevented the focuser from being too "zippy" beyond 10 ft. (though that remains to be seen, we'll have to wait for the reviews next month).

While the Brunton Epoch's have a variable speed focuser, according to Laura, the reviewer at Optics4Birding, the DOF is shallow. (the FOV is only 7* for the 7.5x model).

http://www.optics4birding.com/RevBruntonEpoch.aspx

The question is if the shallow DOF is due to variable focuser speed?

If so, perhaps there is no such thing as a "no-compromise" bino even for $2,400, but only "best-compromise".

With bin purchases, it often comes down to which compromises you can live with and which you can afford to live without.

 

[Sancho]

With bin purchases, it often comes down to which compromises you can live with and which you can afford to live without.

Wrong! With bin purchases, it comes down to...."There´s a new one that might be better...I want to see it!"
(The optics version of "What is good in life, Conan?" "To destroy your enemies; to see them driven before you; and to hear the lamentation of their women!"....you have to imagine a younger Arnold Schwarzenegger saying this....)

 

[henry link]

In making the EL's focus slow at close distance, it would appear that Swaro not only achieved a greater diopter range, but also prevented the focuser from being too "zippy" beyond 10 ft. (though that remains to be seen, we'll have to wait for the reviews next month).

While the Brunton Epoch's have a variable speed focuser, according to Laura, the reviewer at Optics4Birding, the DOF is shallow. (the FOV is only 7* for the 7.5x model).

The question is if the shallow DOF is due to variable focuser speed?...

.

I don't think there is any special decrease in the focus speed of the Swarovskis at close focus. AFAIK their focuser is completely conventional in the sense that it has a constant thread pitch or gear ratio. Measured in diopters, all conventional binocular focusers have the same focusing speed at all distances, although they will appear slower at close focus because the width of a 1 diopter change in focus keeps dropping with distance.

The Bruntons mechanically compensate for that by gradually changing the thread pitch or gear ratio at close focus, so that the same degree of turn on the focusing knob moves the focusing lens more as distance decreases. That would have no influence on the optical DOF.

 

[socksitis]

.....so, are the new EL worth me spending ALL of my binocular money on and the Christmas money!