Northumbrian Birding (2 Viewers)

[Alan G]

Learned Colleagues - the 'debate' re. tape luring was informative and taken positively by me (although I was only complicite in the offence by association - I did not actually commit the act). But after considering my misdemeanour, I raise a related issue, at the risk of reigniting the fire, so to speak.

01/06/08, Great Snipe on Holy Island. Many comments on Birdguides about organised searches, which appeared to be, from what I read, birders arranging themselves so as to quarter an area for the purpose of 'flushing' the bird.

Whilst I appreciate the species status may be different there is, surely, a principal here ie unnatural human intervention designed to trigger a bird to make itself known?!?!?

We could be here a while

Organised flushes allow birders to see birds that have travelled long distances, often way off their expected course, and are tired and should ideally be given time to rest, feed and recover.

The alternative would be for everyone to do their own thing and that would involve constant pressure on the bird.

It has to be accepted that birders will want to see some birds and organised flushes are some sort of middle ground I guess.

 

[Davy Tee]

On a different note from the above, i have been grounded for two weeks for observing the wrong type of birds so i am asking everyone to keep quite of their sightings until i can get out birding again and not make me jealous .

i thank you.

 

[Alan Tilmouth]

You did not commit any misdemeanour. it was perfectly legitimate, the birds were not nesting nor were they on territory

Quote from BWPi " In northern Europe laying begins mid- to end May with repeat or second layings to late August."

Quote from The Ultimate Site Guide to Scarcer British Birds (just re-published) "It is an offence to tape lure Quail"

Quote from the RSPB website "Repeatedly playing a recording of birdsong or calls to encourage a bird to respond can divert a territorial bird from other important duties, such as feeding its young. Never use playback to attract a species during its breeding season."

Perhaps you would like to explain why exactly you feel that it is 'perfectly legitimate' despite all the advice to the contrary. I know I can't prove there was a pair attempting a second laying at or near the site, just as you can't prove there wasn't unless of course you have a licence and have visited the original nest to ring or photograph them?
Given that the species we're discussing is one of the most difficult to see, again to quote LGRE's guide "almost impossible to see without flushing" I fail to see how you can be 100% certain. Without 100% certainty the birds should get the benefit of the doubt every time.

 

[Alan Tilmouth]

Learned Colleagues - the 'debate' re. tape luring was informative and taken positively by me (although I was only complicite in the offence by association - I did not actually commit the act). But after considering my misdemeanour, I raise a related issue, at the risk of reigniting the fire, so to speak.

01/06/08, Great Snipe on Holy Island. Many comments on Birdguides about organised searches, which appeared to be, from what I read, birders arranging themselves so as to quarter an area for the purpose of 'flushing' the bird.

Whilst I appreciate the species status may be different there is, surely, a principal here ie unnatural human intervention designed to trigger a bird to make itself known?!?!?

You raise a valid issue, Organised flushes are one of those issues that divide birders. My personal view is that it isn't black and white, they can ensure that a migrant is only disturbed a minimum number of times in a given day so I guess it depends on how organised and how often and the individual circumstances. The key difference though is that Quail is a Scedule 1 Breeding species and we are potentially still in it's breeding season, whether any individual believes there is an active nest or not repeated tape luring is unacceptable to most right thinking birders under these circumstances.

 

[seggs]

Learned Colleagues - the 'debate' re. tape luring was informative and taken positively by me (although I was only complicite in the offence by association - I did not actually commit the act). But after considering my misdemeanour, I raise a related issue, at the risk of reigniting the fire, so to speak.

01/06/08, Great Snipe on Holy Island. Many comments on Birdguides about organised searches, which appeared to be, from what I read, birders arranging themselves so as to quarter an area for the purpose of 'flushing' the bird.

Whilst I appreciate the species status may be different there is, surely, a principal here ie unnatural human intervention designed to trigger a bird to make itself known?!?!?

Gordon i was on the island when the Great snipe shout went up, and refused to take part myself in the organised search/flush when the tide allowed many more people to take part, I passed them comming in.
Ive had this discusion before...how important is a tick?? to the birds well being!

 

[woodhornbirder]

"The final 20+ pages are dedicated to further detail and more detailed maps of 26 'Migration and Rarity Hotspots' with St Abbs, Holy Island, Whitburn & Teesmouth all covered North East birders get good value in this section."


bet jgs is gonna be annoyed if there is no mention of newbiggin

 

[andylewoc]

With a minimum of 5 males singing in one field I am 100% certain the birds were not breeding they were most likely this years young

Quote from BWPi " In northern Europe laying begins mid- to end May with repeat or second layings to late August."

Quote from The Ultimate Site Guide to Scarcer British Birds (just re-published) "It is an offence to tape lure Quail"

Quote from the RSPB website "Repeatedly playing a recording of birdsong or calls to encourage a bird to respond can divert a territorial bird from other important duties, such as feeding its young. Never use playback to attract a species during its breeding season."

Perhaps you would like to explain why exactly you feel that it is 'perfectly legitimate' despite all the advice to the contrary. I know I can't prove there was a pair attempting a second laying at or near the site, just as you can't prove there wasn't unless of course you have a licence and have visited the original nest to ring or photograph them?
Given that the species we're discussing is one of the most difficult to see, again to quote LGRE's guide "almost impossible to see without flushing" I fail to see how you can be 100% certain. Without 100% certainty the birds should get the benefit of the doubt every time.

 

[Mark Newsome]

Hi Andy,
Just a couple of points:

You did not commit any misdemeanour. it was perfectly legitimate, the birds were not nesting nor were they on territory

Your post says they were not on territory. Why would they be singing if they weren't trying to set up a territory and attract a mate (or maybe already had attracted a mate)?

With a minimum of 5 males singing in one field I am 100% certain the birds were not breeding they were most likely this years young

Your post says they were most likely this years young. Now I'm no gamebird expert like you seem to be, but I'm not aware that juveniles only a month or two old at most would start singing and try establish territory.

I think we're starting to get to the root cause in a lot of these unfortunate tape-luring incidents. Not malicious intent, but ignorance.

Mark

 

[woodhornbirder]

proabaly not related but.....

i was looking at the beach beside the gold course at newbigin last evening, 1 saw a number of roseates on the rocks at beacon point, the roseates were very obvious as there were very few artics in evidence(something rather odd in itself). They were being very noisy, and have disitnctive call, which was obvious as there were few of the other commoner species about.

I saw at least one pair displaying, ie tail and head pointing with a fish in beak. I dont understand this......surely this is far too late for birds to be doing this?? maybe renewing the pair bond ??

COuld this be that displaying behavious still happens POST breeding? Surely i couldnt have seen non breeding birds still haning about in NE ?

IF this is some sort of behaiour pattern of summer breeders, it could in theory be present in quail too.

tbh i was gobsmacked wheni saw it, and am trying to make sense of it. maybe the terns dont realise its august and far too late to be doing this )

as a by....saw house martin feed ing young at a nest in newbiggin yesterday too!

 

[andylewoc]

I see where the ignorance comes in 5 males in the same field trying to set up a territory in the middle of August or all mating

Hi Andy,
Just a couple of points:



Your post says they were not on territory. Why would they be singing if they weren't trying to set up a territory and attract a mate (or maybe already had attracted a mate)?



Your post says they were most likely this years young. Now I'm no gamebird expert like you seem to be, but I'm not aware that juveniles only a month or two old at most would start singing and try establish territory.

I think we're starting to get to the root cause in a lot of these unfortunate tape-luring incidents. Not malicious intent, but ignorance.

Mark

 

[andylewoc]

An extract from B.T.O. - Quail
Remarkably some of the Quail arriving now are likely to be birds born this year further South in Europe or North Africa. First broods are capable of migrating just two months after hatching and can be sexually mature at the age of 12-15 weeks

Hi Andy,
Just a couple of points:



Your post says they were not on territory. Why would they be singing if they weren't trying to set up a territory and attract a mate (or maybe already had attracted a mate)?



Your post says they were most likely this years young. Now I'm no gamebird expert like you seem to be, but I'm not aware that juveniles only a month or two old at most would start singing and try establish territory.

I think we're starting to get to the root cause in a lot of these unfortunate tape-luring incidents. Not malicious intent, but ignorance.

Mark

 

[Ross Ahmed]

The following are details of two pelagics out of South Shields which I hope some of you will be able to attend

Two sailings booked for Sun 6th Sept and Sun 20th Sept leaving from Mill Dam, South Shields. Sailing will be 8am-4pm up to 60 miles offshore.

Trips weather dependent and will be cancelled if poor weather, but may be able to be rearranged.

Price is £27.50 per person. Please send full amount to me to reserve place. First 11 payments received will get places (can't think of a better way to do it than that?). If only paying for one trip, please let me know which trip you want to go on. Could arrange more trips if high demand.

Easiest way to pay is to send money to my paypal account. Send to email address [email protected] Otherwise send cheque to 23 Rede Avenue, Hebburn, Tyne and Wear, NE31 1QT.

Trips open to all including non-DBC members.

To book or if any questions get in touch.

 

[Alan Tilmouth]

An extract from B.T.O. - Quail
Remarkably some of the Quail arriving now are likely to be birds born this year further South in Europe or North Africa. First broods are capable of migrating just two months after hatching and can be sexually mature at the age of 12-15 weeks

You might want to do the maths, migration after two months (8-9 weeks) means sexual maturity in another 3-6 weeks not now, also the chances of this year's young moving this far North so quickly, I wouldn't want to stake much on that. Despite your obvious searching around for plausible reasons the fact remains you cannot be sure of this and therefore should not be tape luring repeatedly if you are the individual referred to originally.. I'll pass on the details to the local RSPB office and let them decide whose interests should come first, feel free to PM your name and contact number so I can forward them on.

 

[vanellus]

Cresswell and Druridge

Belated report for yesterday (15th) pm. Cresswell - lots of ducks incl. Mallard, Gadwall, Wigeon, Tuftie and Shelduck. 8 Dunlins, 1 Common Sandpiper and 80+ Lapwings. Cracking male Stonechat near small pond. Yellow Wag. near Callico Barn.

Druridge - good for butterflies - several Painted Ladies, Wall Brown, Meadow Brown and a fantastic Small Copper (what is their Northumbs status? Used to see loads in Lincs. but cannot remember seeing one in Northumbs. before).

 

[Davy Tee]

x4 Black Tailed Godwit Beehive Flash, single Golden Plover Holywell Pond

 

[jerkin]

budle bay and monk house pond

cuckoo came in to and over the bay from Ross sands all so female juvenile peregrine tried to take a moorhen at monk house pond,AM

 

[jerkin]

Rare bird call

Does anyone remember the Prestwick Carr Corncrake a few years back? I saw a chap there using a homemade 'lure' consisting of a stick with notches being rasped with another stick. Didn't half sound like a corncrake though probably still against the spirit of bird disturbance.

I've also seen people using their mobile phones a lot more. Downloading bird calls is very easy these days. Simple to play the call back with the volume up. My mobile ring tone is a Piliated Woodpecker!

I agree with the fieldcraft and patience route though. Much more satisfying to id a bird using these methods.

A well known Newcastle birder several decades ago spent several hours trying to track a bird that he could not recognize by its call only to discover it was a wheelbarrow

 

[Vipers]

Small Copper (what is their Northumbs status? Used to see loads in Lincs. but cannot remember seeing one in Northumbs. before).

I'd be interested in knowing their status also. I had one in my garden last week.

 

[Alan Tilmouth]

I'd be interested in knowing their status also. I had one in my garden last week.

You can probably find out here http://www.nbn.org.uk/Home.aspx

 

[Vipers]

Cheers Alan! I'll have a look.