Oddball Zeiss "Deltrintem" picked up at flea market (1 Viewer)

[led]

Greetings, dear optics experts.

This weekend we picked up a 7 x 50 Carl Zeiss Jena binocular, purportedly from the 1940s. Clean, ridiculously sharp glass, but needs to be collimated. However, there are some...irregularities that are puzzling.


First, the "Deltrintem" marking on a 7 x 50 binocular. I thought a Deltrintem was, by definition, a binocular with a 8x magnifying factor - the only ones I have seen are the 8 x 30s.

Second, a six-digit serial number. (642733). My husband called Zeiss today and they can't identify the binocular by the SN.

Third, the leather case (assuming it's the original, seems in good condition and a perfect fit) - stamped "JAPAN" on the bottom.


What the heck do we have here? A fake? Some kind of FrankenZeiss hodgepodge? A genuine Zeiss manufactured in Japan? Inquiring minds want to know.

Your input is greatly appreciated. Thank you!

 

[Troubador]

Greetings, dear optics experts.

This weekend we picked up a 7 x 50 Carl Zeiss Jena binocular, purportedly from the 1940s. Clean, ridiculously sharp glass, but needs to be collimated. However, there are some...irregularities that are puzzling.


First, the "Deltrintem" marking on a 7 x 50 binocular. I thought a Deltrintem was, by definition, a binocular with a 8x magnifying factor - the only ones I have seen are the 8 x 30s.

Second, a six-digit serial number. (642733). My husband called Zeiss today and they can't identify the binocular by the SN.

Third, the leather case (assuming it's the original, seems in good condition and a perfect fit) - stamped "JAPAN" on the bottom.


What the heck do we have here? A fake? Some kind of FrankenZeiss hodgepodge? A genuine Zeiss manufactured in Japan? Inquiring minds want to know.

Your input is greatly appreciated. Thank you!

I am not an expert but comment as follows:

Zeiss did apply the Jenoptem model name to both an 8x30 and a 10x50 so your idea that Deltrintems were exclusively 8x30s may be mistaken.
The country of manufacture of the case may have no relevance at all to the binoculars. Zeiss didn't make cases (or straps) and may have bought cases from several different sources, some of which may not have been in Germany, and of course, your case may not be the original.
AFAIK Zeiss serial numbers were based on the number of units manufactured so there would have been a time when these were only 6 digits.

Don't think I have been of much help so good luck with your researches.

Lee

 

[Richard D]

I know the 6 digit Jenoptems tend to be Japanese made but don't know about the Deltrintems. I think the Japanese Jenoptem were originally unlicensed copies, but Zeiss then gave the manufacturer a license. Your Deltrintems could be from this period, but it's a guess.

 

[garymh]

Hi,

Looking at the details on the binocular it is definitely not one of the later Japanese models.

The serial number dates it to 1916.

BTW......Zeiss would not be able to date it for you. Your binocular was made by Zeiss Jena (East Germany). They ceased trading in 1990 and since 1947 had been a completely different company to the Zeiss (West Germany) which exists today.


Gary

 

[Foss]

Hello,
Interesting find. Perhaps more pix showing the body, knobs, etc. will help someone ID it for you.
~ Foss

 

[etudiant]

The pictures appear to show a classic 1930-1980 Zeiss Jena 7x50, with some interesting differences.
The font style differs from the Zeiss standard. Also. afaik the serial number on Zeiss Jena binoculars was usually put on the end cap of the central focusing shaft, the prism covers were reserved for product specs and customer designations (three crown for Swedish military, MdI for the East German Interior Ministry).
The Japanese license production retained those conventions, afaik. So this may be a pre license knock off or perhaps something completely different.
But if Garymh does not know, it will be a challenging search.

 

[superc]

It is known (and was a scandal at the time) that before WWII from the 1920s on until WW2 began some shady companies in France made cheap fake Carl Zeiss/Jena binoculars which they sold wherever they could at Zeiss prices. Some of those porro bodies didn't even have prisms in them and were simply lenses with adjustable focus. Similarly after WW2 there were a few people who bought thousands of military surplus binoculars (primarily the British ones with a similar shape), ground off the markings, adding new fake ones indicating Zeiss manufacture with Nazi acceptance marks, and sold those as authentic souvenirs of the Nazi era, [Those can usually be detected by the lanyard attachment points being in the wrong place and often having the wrong font type and size or the wrong (ie aircraft inspection stamp on naval binoculars, etc.) Nazi acceptance mark, and the having wrong tube length measurements,] As alluded, in the 1980s another group of fraudsters at a small optics factory in Japan also turned out and sold fake Zeiss binoculars. Although they primarily copied the 10x50s they also copied some of the 8x30 & 7x50 models. One of the two Zeiss companies did license them, but not the other one which led to some dispute between the two companies and the license was withdrawn. The Japanese company had made fakes of both companies products and their optic and manufacture quality was/is mostly poor. A lot of all of the fakes are still floating around at there (there is at least one on Ebay as I write this) as are legitimate binoculars.

I believe your binoculars are fake for several reasons. First the model name. The early 7x50s from Zeiss @ Jena were called the Binoctar and so marked. In 1931 the center focused Binoctem model came out. Zeiss/Jena used the same serial number chain for all of it's lens products. By 1931 Zeiss/Jena serial numbers were well past 1 million. The Kriegsmarine Zeiss/Jenna models of WW2 were marked as DF 7x50. After WW2 Zeiss/Jena went back to making the Binoctar and the Binoctem. They finished producing the Binoctar in 1971 but continued making the Binoctem until 1990 when almost everything Zeiss/Jena stopped. In the 1970s Zeiss/Jena also sold their 7x50 Jenoptem model side by side against their Binoctem. The primary difference between the 2 models was the lens coating. Zeiss/Jena did not assign the Deltrintem name to a 7x50, Zeiss/Jena (aks Zeiss East) did not stamp their products made in Germany. Zeiss West did but it was not in Jena so their products did not say Jena. Before the Iron Curtain went up Zeiss West used to mark their products as Made in West Germany, but after the iron Curtain went up in 1961 they changed it to just saying Germany. Zeiss East (Zeiss/Jena) when they marked their products with a country, marked them DDR. The stamped (improbable) serial number is very much in the wrong loctation. It could be an optical distortion effect, but also the font of the name Jena seems incorrect to me. Is it wrong for me to add I don't like the screw heads on the end caps?

 

[Troubador]

Before the Iron Curtain went up Zeiss West used to mark their products as Made in West Germany, but after the iron Curtain went up in 1961 they changed it to just saying Germany.

I do not claim to be an expert but I am pretty sure this is incorrect and the 'Made in West Germany' disappeared around 1991 when the two Germanys were re-unified and Zeiss east and west came together.

Lee

 

[Mike Crawley]

Before the Iron Curtain went up Zeiss West used to mark their products as Made in West Germany, but after the iron Curtain went up in 1961 they changed it to just saying Germany. Zeiss East (Zeiss/Jena) when they marked their products with a country, marked them DDR.

Unless there’s something I have missed
I suspect that this is a typo but before the Iron Curtain went up to form East and West it was just Germany