Old v's new? (1 Viewer)

[Thrupenney Bit]

Thanks Peter.
I think I need to investigate new eyepieces for this function alone, or I'm either walking somewhat blurry eyed, or juggling glasses and bins.
Hmmmm more food for thought!

 

[wllmspd]

For reference the sdl3 rotate up eyecup has around 16 mm of travel, the 40831 has about 9 mm. This isn’t a measure of eye relief, just the range the eyecup can travel. For instance I find that mostly out is best for the sdl3 for me.

Peter

 

[Thrupenney Bit]

Thanks Peter.
I'm rapidly coming round to the idea of having a look around at kit, especially with a field day from In Focus close by in early March. Maybe seek out shops locally if I get impatient.

I've generally used the scope and bins without wearing my glasses but I've just realised I'm missing things whilst walking around so using the scope with glasses is becoming more of an issue.

Is retrofitting such an eyepiece sensible, or should I trade up?
I think need to have a look around before deciding which way to go.

 

[jring]

Hi Jorge and Thrupenney Bit!

first of all, welcome to BF!

Thank you for sharing your Opticron SDL conversion, Jorge! I have only once looked through a fluorite Optolyth and with the zoom (probably the old one) the view was a bit disappointing narrow and not quite sharp at 60x. So it's great to hear that there is an inofficial upgrade path from Opticron too... as for the Kowa TSN-3/4 fluorite scopes of olde that also had a not so great 20-60 zoom and shine with Opticron SDL or HDF zooms...

As for the original poster's plain glass Optolyth, a 30 wide would probably the best option. At 40x or so the view will degrade due to longitudinal chromatic aberration. If a lighter example is the goal, sth with ED glass around 60-65mm aperture is a good idea - these can be used as your only scope without too many compromises while 50mm examples are often used as lightweight options for those long hikes with a full size scope for everything else...

Joachim, whose cherry TSN-3 with SDLv2 is still good enough in a line of current alphas to keep any thoughts of upgrading away...

 

[Elkhornsun]

Larger objectives means more weight. Question is how much light do you need and whether the 65mm scope is good enough for your purposes.

I put a Arca-Swiss plate on my scope so I can mount it to any of my photography tripods which are much sturdier than the ones made for scope use. This type of foot also makes it easy to clamp the foot to the Kirk Photo Security Strap and then have the strap across my chest and having a lens hanging at waist height. Very easy to keep the lens from swinging about with one hand while holding my tripod in the other hand.

After the introduction of affordable computers the optics designers could produce new designs in a fraction of the time of that when all the calculations were done manually. This accelerated the development of new optics for binoculars, spotting scopes, and camera lenses. Moving production to Asia also reduced the labor costs in their manufacture. The most visible improvement is with zoom eyepieces used with spotting scopes and telescopes for the consumer market.

 

[Binastro]

Prof Wynne's computer programmes from the 1950s and 1960s for optical design are still the basis for modern computer designed optics.
He designed the Wray 50mm and 64mm f/0.71 lenses in 1951 that were used in mass TB x-rays.

I doubt that the Chinese do much more than copy successful Western designs.

Chinese astro scopes are often good and low price, but are basic designs that have been around for about 80 years or more.

From the reports here the quality of spotting scopes is generally not very good.

Complex zoom photo lenses do benefit from fast modern computers.
Also camera phone lenses.

Regards,
B.

 

[Thrupenney Bit]

Prof Wynne's computer programmes from the 1950s and 1960s for optical design are still the basis for modern computer designed optics.
He designed the Wray 50mm and 64mm f/0.71 lenses in 1951 that were used in mass TB x-rays.

I doubt that the Chinese do much more than copy successful Western designs.

Chinese astro scopes are often good and low price, but are basic designs that have been around for about 80 years or more.

From the reports here the quality of spotting scopes is generally not very good.

Complex zoom photo lenses do benefit from fast modern computers.
Also camera phone lenses.

Regards,

Thank you both for your thoughts, I'd no idea of how the design changed.
I'll check out the security strap too.

 

[jvicente]

Hi,
@Thrupenney Bit, regarding the eye relief on the Optolyth 20x eyepiece, you can always unscrew the eye guard completely, which should ensure comfortable viewing with glasses (at least the Optolyth 30x eyepiece allows you to do this). A little drastic, but probably with good practical results.
@jring, thanks for the feedback! The Optolyth/Opticron combo performs very similarly to the Opticron MM4 77 ED with the same eyepiece. The tests I carried out also gave it some advantage when compared to an old Zeiss Diascope T*FL 65 with the 15-45x eyepiece (although this eyepiece is very nice because it's a wide one). And it eclipsed an Opticron HR 80 ED with the SDLv2 eyepiece, although I'm convinced that this was quite a lemon.
It's worth noting that I star tested the Optolyth TBS 80 HDF with very positive results.
In a subjective assessment, I believe that the combination with the SDLv3 (or v2) eyepiece is more appropriate with Optolyth HDF bodies.

Best regards,
Jorge

 

[Thrupenney Bit]

Hi,
@Thrupenney Bit, regarding the eye relief on the Optolyth 20x eyepiece, you can always unscrew the eye guard completely, which should ensure comfortable viewing with glasses (at least the Optolyth 30x eyepiece allows you to do this). A little drastic, but probably with good practical results.
@jring, thanks for the feedback! The Optolyth/Opticron combo performs very similarly to the Opticron MM4 77 ED with the same eyepiece. The tests I carried out also gave it some advantage when compared to an old Zeiss Diascope T*FL 65 with the 15-45x eyepiece (although this eyepiece is very nice because it's a wide one). And it eclipsed an Opticron HR 80 ED with the SDLv2 eyepiece, although I'm convinced that this was quite a lemon.
It's worth noting that I star tested the Optolyth TBS 80 HDF with very positive results.
In a subjective assessment, I believe that the combination with the SDLv3 (or v2) eyepiece is more appropriate with Optolyth HDF bodies.

Best regards,
Jorge

OK thank you for the thoughts, I'll investigate the x20 eyepiece too

 

[Thrupenney Bit]

OK thank you for the thoughts, I'll investigate the x20 eyepiece too

Update: As mentioned at the start, I've an Optolyth TGB80 with x20w eyepiece in a case with a strap and a Manfrotto 290B tripod with a 200 head that has a quick release plate. I've started to use it properly for the first time walking around a local wetland.
Originally I'd release the 'scope when not using it and carry it using the shoulder strap and either carry the tripod in my hand or use it's shoulder strap which is all a bit unwieldy especially if needing to use my bins and make notes.

I've just got back from a quick amble.
I put the scope's shoulder strap through a D ring on the tripod, so ensuring if it did accidentally release, it wouldn't immediately 'quick release' itself onto the floor. Made sure the scope is properly seated in the quick release unit and I simply shouldered the tripod and attached scope.
I have therefore realised the quick release plate can be trusted not to suddenly release the scope!
Keeping the tripod fully extended, scope attached, is a reasonable way to carry both.

With this ability to trust the quick release, I wonder if I might try a tripod backpack, so leaving my arms and hands free.
Therefore - can I have recommendations please for a tripod backpack?
I'm UK based and was wondering what people use...
cheers
Q

 

[Thrupenney Bit]

Update no. 2:
It's been a while since I asked my original question about old v's new scopes.
In that time I've used a friend's Swarovski ATS 80mm with a 25x50 eyepiece on the wetland I frequent and noted the ability to identify birds at a distance with it's zoom, seen a couple of Vortex and a Swarovski ATX 85mm scopes at a field day and managed to buy a second hand Swarovski 65mm with 25x50 eyepiece.
All in all a massive change since my first post.

As I need to walk around a wetland carrying out a bird count, I've now got a backpack carrier for my tripod so can carry the scope mounted on the tripod. After a 4 1/2 hour walk around, it's much more comfortable plus leaving hands free to use bins, make notes etc. The need for a scope in my situation is to identify birds, often gulls, at a distance beyond my x8 bins, so no real need for a quick setup of the scope. The backpack carrier works well for me.

My friend's ATS 80 with the ability to zoom in at distant birds was a revelation, hence me keeping an eye out for something similar. In the end I sourced a ATS 65 with a 25x50 eyepiece and am very pleased with it.
When it arrived I set it up side by side with my Optolyth 80mm and x20 eyepiece.
It was a very overcast day, looking across the field behind our house into trees.
The difference was very obvious. The Optolyth was ok, but the ATS with the eyepiece at x25 had a noticeably brighter image, wider field of view and just an all round good image.

Today was my first count using the new scope.
With it being angled ( the Optolyth was straight ) I found I could use the scope the just one set of tripod legs extended, and raise or lower the central column. I can walk around with just the lower legs out, so no need to fuss with extending another leg, just raise the column.
Identifying gulls on an island in the wetland was easy. A really clear image, with the ability to zoom in to check if needed. I also saw a diving bird at distance in my bins, assumed it was a Little Grebe, and was able to zoom in and take a good look at it in between dives.
So.... a massive difference from when I first started here, and especially after today's bird count, I'm happy to say I've embraced change. It has helped me in many ways and all in all helped me in my birding.
Thanks for your thoughts over the thread, it all helped me get to grips with the changes over the years when I wasn't birding!
cheers
Q

 

[wllmspd]

Have to say that that combo seems to be the “favoured one” for the more hardcore birding people I go out with. A decent width/power zoom and a sensible size of quality scope, with hands free carrying (I prefer a backpack as I try to bring too much other “rubbish” with me (food/ID guides etc - irrelevant for a real birder!)). All the best to many years of heavy and intensive use and all the memorable views it gives.

Peter

 

[Thrupenney Bit]

Have to say that that combo seems to be the “favoured one” for the more hardcore birding people I go out with. A decent width/power zoom and a sensible size of quality scope, with hands free carrying (I prefer a backpack as I try to bring too much other “rubbish” with me (food/ID guides etc - irrelevant for a real birder!)). All the best to many years of heavy and intensive use and all the memorable views it gives.

Peter

My backpack is a Cley Spy Mule, and has a removable 'camera pouch' that has a waterbottle pouch.
It works well and saves carrying yet another pouch/bag etc.

 

[jring]

Hi,

congratulations to your new scope - ATS HD (anything halfway recent will be HD w/o saying so) with the wide angle zoom sounds nice and it seems like it works well for you.

One tip for the tripod use... keep the lowest section in and extend the middle one... more stable. Or even extend the middle section and part of the lowest so you can still carry it on your back in the mulepack and keep the center column or most of it down...

And make a cable tie aiming device, if you haven't already...

Enjoy the view!

Joachim

 

[Thrupenney Bit]

Hi,

congratulations to your new scope - ATS HD (anything halfway recent will be HD w/o saying so) with the wide angle zoom sounds nice and it seems like it works well for you.

One tip for the tripod use... keep the lowest section in and extend the middle one... more stable. Or even extend the middle section and part of the lowest so you can still carry it on your back in the mulepack and keep the center column or most of it down...

And make a cable tie aiming device, if you haven't already...

Enjoy the view!

Joachim

Thanks Joachim.
Yep I was wondering if I should extend the middle one to be more stable rather than the lowest section. Good point.
Mine has an aiming device, and it does help!

I certainly am enjoying the view.
Best wishes
Q