Oriental or Caspian plover? Location to be revealed afterwards (1 Viewer)

[earlytorise]

I genuinely want to know if Oriental can be separated from Caspian, without regard to the location. (Might be of use to twitchers in the UK, for example, since Oriental has appeared in Norway.)

These pictures were taken in early April this year. There was one male, one female. Unfortunately the underwing didn't show well on either.

(The blurry ones are snapshots from videos, I don't think I can upload big files here.)

Can you tell, with certainty, which species these are?

I will reveal the location after getting some answers.

Thanks, have a nice day!

 

[Harrybongo]

Hi. I'm by no means an expert, but by the leg colour, which, on Caspian is normally greenish, and overall buffish brown colour of most of the bird, I'd say, Oriental?

 

[Harrybongo]

......... Other than the cream coloured brest, that is.

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

Hi. I'm by no means an expert, but by the leg colour, which, on Caspian is normally greenish, and overall buffish brown colour of most of the bird, I'd say, Oriental?

Agreed, overall warm colouration and pinkish-yellow leg combo confirm Oriental + would expect Caspian to be in more advanced summer plumage by this date.

Grahame

 

[Butty]

This isn't a quizz forum. Could you give the location, as the forum guidelines require? Thanks.

 

[Jos Stratford]

This isn't a quizz forum. Could you give the location, as the forum guidelines require? Thanks.

It wasn't put as a quiz, but a genuine identification issue as far as I can see, and reasons given why location not given at this stage .

WAB

 

[vergan]

I know what it is. I will reveal afterwards.
Cheers

 

[MKinHK]

I agree with Jos that asking for guidance on ID without revealing location avoids the less than useful response: "It must be x because that's the expected species there".

These for me are clearly Orientals for the reasons Graham and Harrybongo stated, but I admire the questioning mind that asks "How would I identify a Caspian if it appeared here?"

I also have the admittedly unfair advantage of knowing both the OP and the location, which has an outstanding record of attracting vagrants from across Eurasia (and indeed beyond). It used to be my patch (I'd recognised that cracked fishcrap mud anywhere!), and Caspian Plover was one of the birds I dreamed of finding there.

Cheers
Mike

 

[jogresh]

Sometimes in the ID threads, people say something like "I'll not say just yet what I think it is, to avoid prejudicing your thoughts on it". I think this is an acceptable way of avoiding confirmation bias - something which I have fallen prey to many times, and most people probably have too. It's an inherent psychological trait in people. We tend to see what we expect to see and not being primed in advance can help us to approach an ID conundrum without preconceptions.
As for this plover ID query, I'm really not sure what it is but I've noted the ID pointers already posted. Thanks for posting! 🙂👍🐦

 

[earlytorise]

I also have the admittedly unfair advantage of knowing both the OP and the location, which has an outstanding record of attracting vagrants from across Eurasia (and indeed beyond). It used to be my patch (I'd recognised that cracked fishcrap mud anywhere!), and Caspian Plover was one of the birds I dreamed of finding there.

Thanks everyone! I didn't know the mud itself was recognisable, haha.

Sometimes in the ID threads, people say something like "I'll not say just yet what I think it is, to avoid prejudicing your thoughts on it". I think this is an acceptable way of avoiding confirmation bias - something which I have fallen prey to many times, and most people probably have too.

Precisely.

The thing is, before I wrote this post, I really didn't know if people would be able to confirm Oriental on this one.

I couldn't find a rarity report or ID paper that said, "This bird is in winter plumage and the open wing didn't show clearly, but because of reasons XYZ, we were able to ascertain that this is Oriental rather than Caspian (or vice versa)."

If I said in advance that this was from Hong Kong, I'd have to think about the possibility of confirmation bias kicking in.

In any case, this has been most useful. Thanks once again!