-
Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.
Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
Philadephia and Warbling Vireo Colonel Samuel Smith Park Ontario (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter 49bentley
- Start date
stuartelsom
Well-known member
Hi Chris,
For me 1-3 are Philadelphia Vireo, 4 is most probably Warbling but it is in such an awkward pose it's hard to be sure, but all of the remaining shots are Warbling.
Cheers
Stu
For me 1-3 are Philadelphia Vireo, 4 is most probably Warbling but it is in such an awkward pose it's hard to be sure, but all of the remaining shots are Warbling.
Cheers
Stu
As those using the like button, I also agree with Stu.
Niels
Keith/Portland
Well-known member
I'd say look at the neat round headed appearance of the first 3 shots, together with appearance of greyish cap on some. In contrast, others appear more unkempt with less neat facial pattern and more elongated, less rounded head profile
For me, I assume 1, 2, 3 are the same bird. The overall impression of the head with greyish cap and more contrasting face just fit my impression of PhVi. Looking at the rest again, the last two to me are looking like classical eastern WaVi, less contrasting in the face and lacking the greyish cap. Those in between I am less certain about.
Niels
Niels
I think that is expected. Compare
File:Warbling Vireo.jpg - BirdForum Opus
www.birdforum.net
File:Philadelphia Vireo.jpg - BirdForum Opus
www.birdforum.net
tom baxter
Well-known member
In rare cases Warbling vireo can appear to have a high contrast between the gray cap and upper parts and the paler throat and underparts, and on the other hand Philadelphia Vireo can rarely appear less contrasty. These two species typically are pretty easily identified by degree of contrast, particularly around the face, with Philadelphia having a very bold eye stripe. Most Philadelphia are quite yellow as well, with concentration of yellow on both the throat, and under the tail/vent area. At a glance it is pretty reliable to agree with the original response in this thread by Stu, based just on the impression of contrast. Philadelphia usually have a smaller bill and ever so slightly smaller, more compact body shape as compared the the attenuated warbling vireo, in respect to both the body shape and bill proportions. In my experience, the members of these two species are more frequently challenging to differentiate in the west where presumably warbling vireo has higher contrast than average eastern subspecies. It’s also worth noting, however, that perhaps part of the reason that in-betweeners seem more common in the west is because Philadelphia is very rare, and maybe there is a more sensitive culture of being critical observers of these two species in the west. Disclaimer, this is purely my anecdotal observation that they more frequently overlap in appearance in the west, and it may not hold true in actuality.
Last edited:
Keith/Portland
Well-known member
Thank you very much everyone for your help. You may have guessed from my prior post that I am in the process of learning these. It’s a shame the original responder, Stu, has either missed this follow up or prefers not to share his opinion. Not so easy for us those in north America yet alone us UK guys though, so if that’s the case, who can blame him! 🙂
Keith/Portland
Well-known member
Thank you for time and trouble Tom. I have seen and photographed Warbling Vireo well in Ontario, and seen the birds of the same species you guys confirmed for me from my photos taken in California, that I posted the other day. I guess that my Warblings being different regional varieties and different ages doesn’t help! According to my notes I have seen Philly in Costa Rica and Panama on five occasions … the last being in 2008. No wonder I need a refresher course!
stuartelsom
Well-known member
Hi Keith,
I totally missed this follow up as Chris had already sent me a note on 04/06 and I hadn't picked up the fact that you'd asked me some time later.
From my perspective as a tour leader all UK birders visiting the states in spring want to see everything - I mean who doesn't? In that regard, I would normally talk through the features when we're watching a bird to reaffirm ID features, so pro PV, rich yellow underparts including throat, and vent. Contrasting head pattern with dark crown, broad supercilium and dark lores, so in summary a much more striking head pattern than WV which with its pale lores and generally less contrasting head pattern, often appearing more washed out and less striking, that said you can get extremes so I'd also be looking at the proportionately shorter tail and smaller bill of PV in conjunction with above features.
I think Tom Baxter also summed this up nicely too.
Hope this helps
Stu
I totally missed this follow up as Chris had already sent me a note on 04/06 and I hadn't picked up the fact that you'd asked me some time later.
From my perspective as a tour leader all UK birders visiting the states in spring want to see everything - I mean who doesn't? In that regard, I would normally talk through the features when we're watching a bird to reaffirm ID features, so pro PV, rich yellow underparts including throat, and vent. Contrasting head pattern with dark crown, broad supercilium and dark lores, so in summary a much more striking head pattern than WV which with its pale lores and generally less contrasting head pattern, often appearing more washed out and less striking, that said you can get extremes so I'd also be looking at the proportionately shorter tail and smaller bill of PV in conjunction with above features.
I think Tom Baxter also summed this up nicely too.
Hope this helps
Stu
I don't find the 'field guide' descriptions given above to be useful here, as they don't relate to the birds/photos under discussion. It's evident from these photos (if 1-3 = Philadelphia vireo and 4-8 = warbling vireo is correct), that Philadelphia vireo does in fact not always have 'rich yellow underparts including throat, and vent' and warbling vireo does not always have a 'pale [lore]'. The real problem seems to be created by the more-washed-out individuals of Philadelphia vireo - and I'm still not sure what one does with them, other than (if they are indeed Philadelphia vireos) hope they still show enough yellow and a subtley-slim-enough bill to be suggestive.
Hope that some sound is available to lead one right ... Which is not easy if the bird is silent, there is no recording, or one is a visiting birder with limited knowledge of sounds of the species in question.
Niels