possibile cretzschmar's bunting in Italy - 22.04.2012. Identification very difficult (1 Viewer)

[il gipeto]

Hi everybody!
In Italy a discussion of this identification has just started and I need your help.
I had observed this bird 4 years ago, on 22.04.2012.
It was tighter an ortolan bunting. The thing I noticed is that it appeared clearly different, with only grey and orange tones. No green or yellow colors at all.
It seems a cretzschmar's bunting , but the thing that doesn't match is that there isn't orange on lords, submustachial-stripe and throat: they are whitish. Only a little trace on head. Of course this bird is very pale.
I read on Collin's that is possible to find cretzschmar's bunting like this, but I couldn't find any picture.
I notice also that the shape of the bill appears to me different and upper tails coverts are rufous, different to ortolan bunting.
I ask experts because this bird is very tricky.
Thank You!!

 

[Andy Adcock]

Tricky bird?

andy

 

[AllanM]

For me this is Ortolan Bunting. I've seen pics of Ortolan that have similar pale almost white submustachial-stripe like this.

 

[Andy Adcock]

For me this is Ortolan Bunting. I've seen pics of Ortolan that have similar pale almost white submustachial-stripe like this.

What about the rump, looks OK for Cretzch as does the white eye-ring and lack of greenish tones to the head?

Andy

 

[AllanM]

I know what you mean but I'm not sure about the colour accuracy of these images. I appreciate there is a comparison bird there but I've not experienced grass that colour before! I'd like to see a colour corrected image. Buy maybe you're right.

 

[andyb39]

I'm also puzzled by the way that the Ortolan appears much bigger than the bird in question. Something odd about the last two images.

 

[Sangahyando]

I'm also puzzled by the way that the Ortolan appears much bigger than the bird in question. Something odd about the last two images.

I think that's an optical illusion caused by the zoom or something like that.

 

[il gipeto]

2nd and 4th pictures are saturated because strong light had really "killed" some colors. The bird was "two colored": grey and light orange/red. The ortolan next to this bird was a little bit closer

 

[ApusApus]

There is a photo in Opus of an Ortolan Bunting showing white submoustachial-stripe and bluish head similar to the OP's bird, have a look here

http://www.birdforum.net/opus/Ortolan_Bunting


Shane

 

[il gipeto]

There is a photo in Opus of an Ortolan Bunting showing white submoustachial-stripe and bluish head similar to the OP's bird, have a look here

http://www.birdforum.net/opus/Ortolan_Bunting


Shane

Sorry Shane, but I can't find the ortolan You said

 

[ApusApus]

Sorry Shane, but I can't find the ortolan You said

Just left click on the link shown in red in my post, it will take you to the Opus page!


Shane

 

[andyb39]

I tried adjusting the colours in one of the photos so that the grass appeared a little less bright green. Does this help? I'm having trouble seeing this as an Ortolan to be honest.

 

[il gipeto]

I tried adjusting the colours in one of the photos so that the grass appeared a little less bright green. Does this help? I'm having trouble seeing this as an Ortolan to be honest.

Thank You: the picture that You have adjusted is almost perfect. Probably the bird was only a bit more brilliant, especially in the head that was a grey that was very visible and very different from any ortolan I ever seen, also in picture. No traces of any yellow and green tones. That's why I think it could be a cretzschmar's bunting

 

[Sherpa]

Very obvious Cretz imo.

 

[AllanM]

Yes agree now

 

[il gipeto]

Thank You! But there is only a caracter that doesen't match: can a cretzschmar's have submustachial stripe, throat and lores whitish and not orange at all? For Collin's yes, but I couldn't find any picture of a bird like this.
Thank You again!

 

[AllanM]

Ortolan?

Found this bird on a blog identified as an Ortolan. Seems similar to your bird, low on green tones, grey head with buff facial stripe? So what is this?

 

[il gipeto]

Found this bird on a blog identified as an Ortolan. Seems similar to your bird, low on green tones, grey head with buff facial stripe? So what is this?

Exactly, this one is really very similar to mine. I can't see very well with my actual monitor but maybe the bird You have posted is less grey in the head and the facial stripe is a little bit more colored (a very very light yellow). But it's the most similar bird to mine that I've ever seen in these days. That's why I'm really non sure about the identification.

 

[Sherpa]

The Italian bird shows all the features I would expect of a Cretzchmar's Bunting. Small size in direct comparison to Ortolan, small, narrow bill with straight looking culmen. Classic head colour of a male that is not full adult. Strong rufous tones to all the covert fringes, as well as to the mantle, rump etc. Whitish eye ring.

The sub moustacial area is perfectly normal for a male that is not quite a full adult.

Here is a link to a similar bird.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/-Qa9TyDX3MTM/SxVAMQYvERI/AAAAAAAAA6o/tkrLvKPLhGg/s800/DSCN3323.JPG

 

[il gipeto]

The Italian bird shows all the features I would expect of a Cretzchmar's Bunting. Small size in direct comparison to Ortolan, small, narrow bill with straight looking culmen. Classic head colour of a male that is not full adult. Strong rufous tones to all the covert fringes, as well as to the mantle, rump etc. Whitish eye ring.

The sub moustacial area is perfectly normal for a male that is not quite a full adult.

Here is a link to a similar bird.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/-Qa9TyDX3MTM/SxVAMQYvERI/AAAAAAAAA6o/tkrLvKPLhGg/s800/DSCN3323.JPG

Thank You Sherpa. But the bird in the picture You have posted isn't a Grey Headed Bunting? I see grey scapulars...