Redpoll sp (1 Viewer)

[Bananafishbones]

I Want to revisit a bird from years ago in my garden. At the time I was attracting 50+ individuals and on occasions upto 100
I had 2 Meally Redpoll for around three months on a daily basis.

On one particular day this very pale bird visited and didn’t come back, my question is could it be an Arctic Redpoll?

All pics are the same bird

 

[qwerty5]

Undertail coverts aren't fully visible but they look unstreaked, which should indicate Arctic.

 

[KenM]

Looks a good candidate to me Banana, white to the upper tail, extent of white to the secondary edgings, the general faint streaking to the underparts and overall pallidity.👍

 

[Butty]

If you want people to see the fine detail (and in any case) it's better to post the actual photos rather than screenshots.

 

[KenM]

If you want people to see the fine detail (and in any case) it's better to post the actual photos rather than screenshots.

🤣

 

[dwatsonbirder]

If you want people to see the fine detail (and in any case) it's better to post the actual photos rather than screenshots.

Particularly pertinent when trying to assess Redpoll species - to my eye there appears to be some flank streaking and a relatively strong looking bill which would indicate Mealy over Hornemann's, whilst the images look a bit overexposed making the bird appear paler than in reality.

Please take this with a large pinch of salt, as I've lost track of the defined characteristics for each of the Redpoll complex since they've been lumped - I've seen images of Mealy with white undertail coverts, and Arctic with a single dark line in the undertail coverts.

 

[KenM]

Here’s one from my 2014 “invasion” might have trouble ascribing?

 

[dwatsonbirder]

Here’s one from my 2014 “invasion” might have trouble ascribing?

Mealy (in my opinion) - heavy flank streaking, solid bill, dark markings on UTC's. As previously caveated, don't take my word for it, particularly when it comes to Redpolls!

 

[KenM]

Mealy (in my opinion) - heavy flank streaking, solid bill, dark markings on UTC's. As previously caveated, don't take my word for it, particularly when it comes to Redpolls!

With so much speculation on the overlap zones, I think it’s up to the individual to make their own decisions.
I disagree on the Meally status, as one, it had a large white rump, the heavier side streaking is imo just part of the overlap situation, particularly when viewed against a Lesser, here’s it’s mate.

 

[smiths]

Ken, how many Arctic redpolls do you know of with such a long and wide, dark spot on the undertail coverts?

 

[KenM]

Ken, how many Arctic redpolls do you know of with such a long and wide, dark spot on the undertail coverts?

I wouldn’t know the extent, or lack of, regarding this as a “stand alone” set in stone feature smiths….is it, suspect not, as “lumping” appears to be imminent?

As an aside, I imaged several Redpolls last Winter that had NO streaks to the UTC’s…pure white, unfortunately, most of the shots were from below, with only one shot showing a spotted white rump, (such variability)

Back to 2014, I do know that on balance, they were as different to the Lessers and Meally present as they possibly could be, with both sporting obvious white rumps and looking very grey, black and white with bolder streaking to the flanks (I’d certainly not seen their like before anywhere).

Certainly not your Classic snowball…but a variation on a theme, the flock circa 30, comprised of 2 Meally types, 2 Arctic types and the rest Lessers.

3 shots from last Winter…..

 

[smiths]

Arctic redpoll does not show such a large, triangular spot on the undertail coverts. This can be verified on photographs from the breeding grounds and the main wintering grounds. On the other hand, greater redpolls (especially adult males) with no spots on these feathers have been well documented.

I don't know what your bird is (in post #7), but it should never be identified as an Arctic redpoll in a vagrant context.

 

[KenM]

Arctic redpoll does not show such a large, triangular spot on the undertail coverts. This can be verified on photographs from the breeding grounds and the main wintering grounds. On the other hand, greater redpolls (especially adult males) with no spots on these feathers have been well documented.

I don't know what your bird is (in post #7), but it should never be identified as an Arctic redpoll in a vagrant context.

It may be regarded as a simplistic approach, but the two birds were much closer cosmetically to Arc.Redpoll than the remaining two options thus I’ve lumped them accordingly, especially as I could find nothing comparable after “trawling” images on the web.

My take on the whole complex is that they can be extremely variable, with the established classifications being open to interpretation, once the accepted norm has been overlapped or compromised.
The two birds were present daily, just a few metres from the window, that’s a lot of exposure over c6 weeks and the differences between all three types at that distance was manifold.

I’ll try and dig out some more images..