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Republicans target US Wildlife in Debt talks (1 Viewer)

Suggest that this be transferred to the "Ruffled Feathers" Forum where people from the Irish Republic and the USA can trade political insults about their respective governments and economies.

Bob
 
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Suggest that this be transferred to the "Ruffled Feathers" Forum where people from the Irish Republic and the USA can trade political insults about their respective governments and economies.

Why? The OP’s words strike me as fair comment of a kind perfectly appropriate to the conservation forum. Witness, for example, the numerous threads on the slaughter of migrant songbirds in southern European countries (or, for that matter, the culling of Ruddy Ducks in the UK).

The sad fact is the Republican party has an explicitly anti-environment agenda of which H.R. 2584 is a clear expression. To pretend that this piece of mean-spirited legislation is an honest reaction to the current American budget “crisis” is absurd.
 
For one thing because the Democratic party is also into it up to their ears too. As we well know here in Pennsylvania with the big Shale gas boom. Greed does not recognize party boundaries.

http://birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=183339

Read the 2 links therein. Both political parties in Pennsylvania supported this in the name of energy conservation as they do in the rest of the USA.

And you will have to agree that all those scenic Windmill Farms sprouting up like daisies all over the USA which kill all those birds are promoted solely by the Democratic party, except of course off the coast of Cape Cod, Nantucket, and Martha's Vineyard; all bastions of wealthy and powerful Democrats.


I will leave it to the citizens of the British Isles to tell us all how devout their various governments are in enforcing Conservation there.
 
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For one thing because the Democratic party is also into it up to their ears too. As we well know here in Pennsylvania with the big Shale gas boom. Greed does not recognize party boundaries.

http://birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=183339

Read the 2 links therein. Both political parties in Pennsylvania supported this in the name of energy conservation as they do in the rest of the USA.

And you will have to agree that all those scenic Windmill Farms sprouting up like daisies all over the USA which kill all those birds are promoted solely by the Democratic party, except of course off the coast of Cape Cod, Nantucket, and Martha's Vineyard; all bastions of wealthy and powerful Democrats.

I will leave it to the citizens of the British Isles to tell us all how devout their various governments are in enforcing Conservation there.

Why do you keep dragging nationality into this? HR-2584 is a bad bill & the conservation forum is a perfectly appropriate place to comment on it.

The wider issues you raise have nothing to do with HR-2584 & I have no interest in debating them here.
 
Then there is nothing to debate. I think that you know as well as I do that this bill has no chance of becoming law. And I think that the OP should be advised of that in order to address his concern.

If the bill gets through the senate it will be changed to reflect that venue's views and become a bipartisan effort. And if by some miracle it stays the same it has about as much chance of surviving the President's veto as I do of becoming Ambassador to Britain.
 
Why do you keep dragging nationality into this? HR-2584 is a bad bill & the conservation forum is a perfectly appropriate place to comment on it.

The wider issues you raise have nothing to do with HR-2584 & I have no interest in debating them here.

You brought up the issue of the Republican Party's "explicitly anti-environmentalist agenda" into the OP's complaint about "Corporate Rednecks" (about which I happen to agree with him) and I responded to it. I have no interest in debating that any more either. I've made my point.
 
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Whilst I appreciate that it is probably best to avoid overtly partisan political debates on a forum such as this, the likely outcome of the proposed legislation will be to make habitats, flora and fauna substantially more threatened and endangered. In some cases this outcome seems to be attained by neglect, but in others it seems almost wantonly deliberate. The main points of the post detailed below for convenience:

US legislation potentially disastrous for birds
27/07/2011 16:18:16 House bill is worst government assault on birds and wildlife in a generation, says bird conservation group
July 2011. The U.S. House of Representatives is debating H.R. 2584, an environmental spending bill that is one of the worst assaults on birds and other wildlife ever to come before Congress, according to American Bird Conservancy(ABC), the nation's leading bird conservation organization.

"The bill is loaded with devastating funding cuts and anti-environmental provisions that will wreak havoc on our land, water, air, and wildlife," says Darin Schroeder, Vice President of Conservation Advocacy for ABC. "Birds will be particularly hard hit by this bill."

Examples of programs targeted by the bill:

The Neotropical Migratory Bird Conservation Act, the only federal U.S. grants program specifically dedicated to the conservation of our migratory birds throughout the Americas, will be completely eliminated.
State Wildlife Grants, the nation's core program for preventing birds and wildlife from becoming endangered in addition to supporting strategic conservation investments in every state and territory has been reduced by over 64%.
The North American Wetlands Conservation Act, which provides funding for conservation projects that benefit wetland birds, has been reduced by over 40%.
The Endangered Species Act would be effectively gutted by preventing the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service (FWS) from spending any money on new listings or habitat protection.
Language that blocks measures to protect imperiled species from harmful pesticides. This amendment prohibits the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency from implementing any measures recommended by federal wildlife experts to protect endangered species from pesticides. This spells disaster for species that are already on the brink of extinction due to pesticides and other threats.


"These programs are crucial to maintaining healthy and abundant bird populations throughout the United States, and have proven track records of success," Schroeder said.

Neotropical Migratory Bird Conservation Act
Funding for the Neotropical Migratory Bird Conservation Act grants program is crucial because it is the only federal U.S. grants program specifically dedicated to the conservation of migratory birds throughout the Americas. It has advanced conservation for many declining species, such as the Cerulean Warbler, as well as other birds that American see in their backyards.

The State and Tribal Wildlife Grants program was created to assist states with their voluntary efforts to protect the more than 12,000 at-risk wildlife species around the United States from becoming endangered. The program leverages more than $100 million per year in state, tribal, local, and private dollars that directly support jobs in virtually all states. Slashing funding for this program also undermines the federal government's ten year investment in State Wildlife Action Plans.

The North American Wetlands Conservation Act has leveraged over $2 billion in matching funds affecting 20 million acres through the work of more than 4,000 partners and has fostered public and private sector cooperation for migratory bird conservation, flood control, erosion control, and water quality. Every dollar of money invested in the program has been matched by an average of 3.2 dollars from non-federal entities.

"Congress should be highlighting these programs as models of successful government initiatives instead of eliminating and drastically reducing them," he said.

Birdwatching industry worth $43 billion per year
A report by The Outdoor Industry Foundation estimated that bird watching and other wildlife viewing contributes $43 billion annually to the U.S. economy. An estimated 66 million Americans participate in wildlife viewing, which supports nearly half a million jobs and generates $2.7 billion annually state and federal tax receipts.

ABC also opposes the "Extinction Rider" which guts the Endangered Species Act by preventing the FWS from spending any money to list a new species, upgrade the status of any listed species from threatened to endangered, designate Critical Habitat that is vital to a species' survival, or to assist law enforcement to protect species. The "Pro-Pesticides Rider", added by Representative Calvert (R-CA), blocks measures to protect imperiled species from harmful pesticides and is also opposed by ABC.

"If adopted, these provisions would derail the Endangered Species Act - a law that has led to the successful recovery of many of our nation's most cherished species, including our nation's symbol,the Bald Eagle, and the Whooping Crane," he said.
 
Unfortunately, this is an example of politicians (irrespective of the country they are from) generally not understanding both the Cultural and Economic value of wildlife and the associated effects of reducing funding in these environmental areas.

CB
 
Someone posted (I think to Birdchat?) that at least the Endangered Species Act stuff has been dropped. Although the other problematic material is still present
 
“Many of us think that the overregulation from E.P.A. is at the heart of our stalled economy,” Mr. Simpson said, referring to the Environmental Protection Agency. “I hear it from Democratic members as well.”

Did I just read that some American politicians are trying to blame the state of their economy on environmentalism? Because that would be insane right? :eek!:
 
Nothing says 'healthy economy' like raping the land with no repurcussions? Pre-1973 regs were so easy to dodge. Worse, the EPA has been taken over by 'climatologists' that have a lot of media savvy. When the sky gets precedence over the land and the sea, strange things happen. OBama ended up being as bad as Bush for the environment...who knew?
 
“Many of us think that the overregulation from E.P.A. is at the heart of our stalled economy,” Mr. Simpson said, referring to the Environmental Protection Agency. “I hear it from Democratic members as well.”

Did I just read that some American politicians are trying to blame the state of their economy on environmentalism? Because that would be insane right? :eek!:

Yup, it's insane. It's right-wing, nut-job stupid, but unfortunately America is heading that way. One of the problems with a free-wheeling, free market, consumerist economic/political system is that it eventually becomes too dumb for democracy to work. The Wall Street clowns with money take the country hostage, call all the shots, and everyone else just takes it or leaves it. The dumbest (i.e. TEA party) actually fall for it.

Today, our President takes it, signs it. More to follow. All we can hope for is the inevitable backlash.
 
Yup, it's insane. It's right-wing, nut-job stupid, but unfortunately America is heading that way. One of the problems with a free-wheeling, free market, consumerist economic/political system is that it eventually becomes too dumb for democracy to work. The Wall Street clowns with money take the country hostage, call all the shots, and everyone else just takes it or leaves it. The dumbest (i.e. TEA party) actually fall for it.

Today, our President takes it, signs it. More to follow. All we can hope for is the inevitable backlash.

A fine summary. I only wish I shared your optimism about the inevitability of a backlash.
 
"And yet: the evolving history of the democratization of the world is well-nigh inseparable from the Americanization of the world. Not identical; but inseparable. "To make the world safe for democracy": this hapless idea of an American president, Wilson (a southern New Englander; a Virginian Puritan), remained more enduring than the revolutionary ideas of his contemporary--they died but a few days apart--the(partly Tartar, partly German) goateed demagogue Lenin. Perhaps Wilson's mindless phrase ought to be--may still be--reversed too: "how to make democracy safe for the world," which is a big question that Toqueville would have instantly understood."

From: DEMOCRACY AND POPULISM Fear and Hatred. Page 4. by John Lukacs
Yale University Press, 2005 ISBN 0-300-11693-4
 
This particular attack on the Endangered Species Act has been defeated, see:
http://www.abcbirds.org/newsandreports/stories/110801.html
Well done ABC and its supporters.
And there's a quite a lot of bipartisan support, over one third of Republicans voted for the amendment to save the Act!

Good news, indeed, though not unexpected. The fact remains, however, that a big majority of Republicans voted against the amendment which only passed because of near-unanimous Democratic support. This to my mind does not bode well for the fate of the many less popular environmental protection laws & regulations currently under attack.
 
"And yet: the evolving history of the democratization of the world is well-nigh inseparable from the Americanization of the world. Not identical; but inseparable. "To make the world safe for democracy": this hapless idea of an American president, Wilson (a southern New Englander; a Virginian Puritan), remained more enduring than the revolutionary ideas of his contemporary--they died but a few days apart--the(partly Tartar, partly German) goateed demagogue Lenin. Perhaps Wilson's mindless phrase ought to be--may still be--reversed too: "how to make democracy safe for the world," which is a big question that Toqueville would have instantly understood."

From: DEMOCRACY AND POPULISM Fear and Hatred. Page 4. by John Lukacs
Yale University Press, 2005 ISBN 0-300-11693-4

Goodness! What a contentious (and "American-centric") view of the world - evdience, perhaps, that this debate is veering too deeply into raw politics to be easily contained within BF
 
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