Umm, so what happens if say your wife likes the 8X the best and you like the 10x best? I see the possibility of only a credit card number going back to Charles.
Yeah I'd considered that too. Fortunately, the original purchase of the 8x was pre-ordered so long ago, I think I could make it work. Maybe Charles would help out with offering the pre-order price I paid for the 8x
And anyway, my wife knows it's worth the entry price for quality optics, so if these do in fact stack up to alpha quality glass then I don't think she'd be upset with a good investment. On second thought, maybe I should have asked for sequential or matching serial numbers :-O
Rolling Ball: You saw rolling ball initially with the 8x, but then your follow-up comments indicated you were able to adjust and could not recreate it. I am curious if that is still true and if you see it in the 10x. Comments indicate the 10x is more prone toward that phenomenon.
Wasn't me!
I noticed no RB in the 8xs. I stand by that. Even looking, I can want to see it, but don't really. When I put the 10x to my eye, the first thing I noticed was lots of RB! Well, not really lots, but it was quite noticeable without even looking for it. It did not bother me at all, and my brain quickly adjusted it out of observation unless I focused on it. All in all, not a problem on either pair for me, but definitely present on the 10x.
Pin Cushion: I have not tested this yet. That is to say, I haven't scrutinized geometric objects with parallel lines and right angles. I'm sure it's there, but it's not obvious when looking at nature. Will test later.
Ease of eye placement: Is there a difference in the ease of eye placement between the two, meaning is one more forgiving than the other? Is there any difference between the original 8x unit and the replacement 8x?
I am finding them to be about the same. I must say, Charles was right on the money with the idea that my hinge was too tight, making adjustment difficult without even realizing it. The new 8x is like butter. My wife noticed the improvement immediately, as did I. The 10x is a bit tighter, but not problematic. Both are plenty tight enough to be bumped around or handled on the tripod without going out of adjustment.
Eye Cup Postion and Length: Is the placement location on your face the same for both or different? Are the eye cups of the same length?
They appear to be different. I need to measure and/or place side-by-side to verify the actual dimensions, but the 8x I run fully extended but for the 10x I found the middle notch to be the best. I'll confirm this after further testing, because I already learned from the first pair that there's a bit of a learning curve to finding the optimum position.
Brightness: Do they have about the same brightness during bright light of mid day? Do you notice the 8x with the larger exit pupil to be much brighter at twilight?
Brightness, color, contrast. They all appear essentially identical. Really. I was anticipating a pretty noticeable difference in brightness between the two given the identical aperture (and my young eyes' ability to dilate fully), but even viewing way past sunset (and with cloud cover rolling in), there wasn't really any difference worth mentioning. The only time I could even detect a difference, it was in conditions so bad as to be pointless. I think the extra detail given by the 10x makes up for the smaller exit pupil. Given that it's cloudy, I haven't had a chance to try with astronomy.
One thing I will note, is that contrast (and general viewing) is definitely negatively affected by the eye cups. Because I end up viewing with just a light touch to the top of my eyebrows, lots of light leaks in around the sides. It shows up as a grey haze over the image, resulting in a loss of contrast. You'll also see reflections from light sources behind you (either natural sky or lights) off the oculars superimposed over the image. With the 10x on the tripod, I cupped my hands around the bins to cover the gaps and it was quite an amazing improvement to the entire viewing experience. I also didn't realize until it was gone how distracting all the leaking light is in the peripheral vision. With it blacked out, it was so much nicer to concentrate on the image coming only through the glass. I don't know how you eye-glass wearers could stand it! Winged eye-cups are a must for me to try.
Focus Mechanisim: Are both the same feel and are they as good as you described about the original unit?
I need more time to fully test this. Out of the box, the 10x was excellent, nice and firm with no play whatsoever. The 8x, on the other hand, was awful. Several degrees of slop between forward and backward focus. I was thinking, "oh here we go again with another exchange". But, I noticed (and this was true in the previous sample), that the resistance over the focus range wasn't quite 100% consistent, with a slight tight spot here or a loose spot there. And, when there was slop, I could hear a greasy, airy slurping noise. So, I worked the focus from end to end a bunch of times over the course of my viewing, and it seems to have mostly worked itself out. On the other hand, the 10x seems to have picked up just a hint of slop. It seems like some break-in might be required (expected?), and while they aren't quite perfect at the moment I'm not unhappy with either at this point.
It would also be great to hear any comments about how well the new units resolved the issues you had with the original.
They are much, much better. I got the wow I was looking for with the 10x (probably partly due to my previous experience with the 8x). There are no internal debris in either unit, both show a 100% clear view when looking at the sky. Both are nice to adjust. Both focus pretty well (but as mentioned, not quite perfect yet). One odd thing is the ocular focus adjustment on the 10x. They seem way off. And I mean, to balance them out, I'm at the very end of the scale that's notched in. I'm not sure if I should care, since I can get them in adjustment, though there is very little further travel left. Based on my understand of optics, I suspect it doesn't matter, though I wonder if it's indicative of something else that happened during construction? Everything else optically seems fine so I don't think I'll worry too much about it. The 8x is closer to the original pair, requiring very little move off the 0 mark (and I know my contact lenses are slightly mismatched).
Really, what surprised me most was how
similar these bins are to each other. FOV, color, contrast, adjustment, detail, sharpness, adjustment, blackouts, etc. Pretty even across the board. Even hand-holding shake, I was expecting a lot more. If I had to pick only one to keep, after my limited experience with both, flipping a coin seems as good a decision tree as facts and figures. If you have more specialized needs it'd be easier to choose one depending on your preferences, but for a newbie just interested in general and varied nature viewing, they are for most intents and purposes, identical. If you're on the fence, you can't go wrong with either. If you have no idea which to pick, just go for the 8x.
More to come after some serious usage this weekend, and some photos. I think the biggest thing I've learned and would pass on to other prospective buyers with no/limited binocular experience, is that just like most worthwhile activities there is a learning curve. And like most mechanical devices (especially at a price point), there seems to be some break-in required. Put some time in behind these bins and the rewarding views seems to be there much more consistently over time. I'm more interested in hearing from the vets with lots of time behind alphas to really weigh in on how these stack up. They were hyped to be alpha slayers, did they hit the mark or not? Would I be crazy to want both the 8x and 10x? Are they a "lifetime" investment or would I just want to upgrade for something better in a few years (and my real lust is for the Canon 10x42L with image stabilizing)?
