Ruddy Duck cull (1 Viewer)

[Barred Wobbler]

Lee Evans has requested that sightings of Ruddy Duck are not put out or made available as DEFRA (or their counterpart) are actively targeting individuals as soon as they are aware of their location. There are details on his website.

I'll happily post any sightings I make in that case.

 

[Pete Mella]

Is anyone else starting to get a little deja vu about Ruddy Duck threads on here? Someone declares it an inhuman act of nastiness, others offer a conservation-based perspective, both sides are adamant that they're right, no-one ever budges an inch, and it all goes round in circles.

I'll give it two pages before Cananda Geese/grey squirrels come into the argument

 

[cheshirebirder]

I'll happily post any sightings I make in that case.

Think that is not on . Whatever side of the argument you are on ,I can see no justification in using this forum to direct Defra to go and shoot a bird and I hope the moderators would delete such information. Personally ,I think the cull has gone far enough and the white-headed duck looks secure in Spain.Shame Defra can't get their act together on culling more problematic introduced species .

 

[Adam W]

I'll happily post any sightings I make in that case.

Agreed, I doubt thats likely to persuade people to keep sightings quiet.

 

[Richard Klim]

Personally ,I think the cull has gone far enough and the white-headed duck looks secure in Spain.Shame Defra can't get their act together on culling more problematic introduced species .

If control measures hadn't been taken, what would be your guess of the total population and distribution of Ruddy Duck in the Western Palearctic in, say, 30 years time? Would it then be problematic enough to justify taking action (although almost certainly too late)?

Richard

 

[Barred Wobbler]

"Chacun à son goût" Adam.

 

[cheshirebirder]

If control measures hadn't been taken, what would be your guess of the total population and distribution of Ruddy Duck in the Western Palearctic in, say, 30 years time? Would it then be problematic enough to justify taking action (although almost certainly too late)?

Richard

Richard, I'm not saying the cull shouldn't have occured, and it may be necessary to do it again in the future but it's not necessary to exterminate them as things stand.

 

[Adam W]

Richard, I'm not saying the cull shouldn't have occured, and it may be necessary to do it again in the future but it's not necessary to exterminate them as things stand.

But thats the whole point its no good waiting until we do need to exterminate them as it may well be too late, prevention is better than cure.

 

[Richard Klim]

Richard, I'm not saying the cull shouldn't have occured, and it may be necessary to do it again in the future but it's not necessary to exterminate them as things stand.

I can fully understand that individuals are either for or against control measures. But I can't see any logic whatsoever in following a cull with a deliberate recovery period to allow numbers to increase again until another major culling campaign becomes essential.

Richard

 

[Pete Mella]

I can fully understand that individuals are either for or against control measures. But I can't see any logic whatsoever in following a cull with a deliberate recovery period to allow numbers to increase again until another major culling campaign becomes essential.

Richard

Exactly, the population is said to have come from just 70 birds, if 200 are left in the wild then it's all been a total waste of money. If they're going to do it they've got to see it through.

 

[Richard Klim]

As Pete commented, we've all been here before...

But given the propensity of ducks to hybridise, there's a clear and serious conservation issue with allowing a carelessly introduced New World stifftail to proliferate and become sympatric with a globally-endangered congener. Without control measures, that would surely happen - is this what birders advocating the suppression of Ruddy Duck sightings are hoping for?

The case against culling seems to hinge on birders finding Ruddy Ducks fun to have around, and/or annoyance at short-term disturbance by shooters.

For me, there's no contest over the most responsible course of action.

Richard

 

[Barred Wobbler]

As Pete commented, we've all been here before...

But given the propensity of ducks to hybridise, there's a clear and serious conservation issue with allowing a carelessly introduced New World stifftail to proliferate and become sympatric with a globally-endangered congener. Without control measures, that would surely happen - is this what birders advocating the suppression of Ruddy Duck sightings are hoping for?

The case against culling seems to hinge on birders finding Ruddy Ducks fun to have around, and/or annoyance at short-term disturbance by shooters.

For me, there's no contest over the most responsible course of action.

Richard

Exactly. I'd rate the continuance of a species over a year-tick on my county list and a cute birdie at the local park lake any day.

 

[King Edward]

From an animal welfare/anti-shooting point of view, surely it's better that the cull/extermination gets finished 100% as soon as possible anyway. For every pair that doesn't get shot now and is allowed to breed there are going to be many pairs that will have to be shot in the future.

 

[JoanT]

Exactly. I'd rate the continuance of a species over a year-tick on my county list and a cute birdie at the local park lake any day.

So would I but I would prefer the money that has been spent trying to eradicate the Ruddy Duck ( a bit pointless unless all European Countries eradicate and my understanding is that NO eradication is happening in countries nearer to the White Headed Duck in Spain than the UK. )
The money spent would have been far better being used to eradicate rats in UKOT's (United Kingdom Overseas Territories) where the UK has responsibility
for 34 GLOBALLY THREATENED SPECIES (per BB August 2010) which is far more than the one species namely the White Headed Duck which has increased dramatically during the period of the cull; due to increased management in Spain etc. I agree with what Connor and others have said and I for one have never seen anything that categorically proved that 1 Ruddy Duck from Britain has gone directly to Spain. If anyone can point me to an actual reference that I am mistaken please do so.

Whilst a cull was happening near me a Ruddy Duck was present in Spain ( per Birding World for well over a fortnight.) If Spain was so passionate about protecting White Headed Ducks why wasn't this bird shot on day 2 of its presence in Spain!!

Ruddy Ducks have made it to the Azores and with the increase in the occurance of other American Ducks during the past 30 years in the UK I cannot see why this species might not occur naturally in the UK. It was very common in the Salten Sea Southern California when I was there in December a couple of years ago - so obviously migratory.

Eradication of Mink in the UK would also have been a better deployment of funds which are non native and very destructive to the native Water Vole.

Joan

 

[Barred Wobbler]

I don't see it as "either/or".

I've been in favour of wiping out mink (and prosecuting severely anyone releasing them) for the past 30 years that I can recall - along with grey squirrels, American crayfish and anything else that's wiping out our native species.

As far as the ruddy duck in Spain, it may not have been shot on day 2, but It could have been since. No-one will know. It is however an indication to those who deny it that they do reach there.

White-headed ducks are increasing from a dangerously small population thanks entirely to vigorous efforts of the Spaniards you decry. They've done a great job.

They still need all the help they can get.

 

[Richard Klim]

...my understanding is that NO eradication is happening in countries nearer to the White Headed Duck in Spain than the UK.

France: 120-140 birds culled annually in recent years (our unrequested exports). Belgium: pair attempting to breed in 2007 successfully shot; five adults and five pulli shot in 2009. [per BB.]

The money spent would have been far better being used to eradicate rats in UKOT's (United Kingdom Overseas Territories) where the UK has responsibility for 34 GLOBALLY THREATENED SPECIES...

I wouldn't disagree that UKOTs conservation measures should have even higher priority. But I don't think it should be an either/or.

I for one have never seen anything that categorically proved that 1 Ruddy Duck from Britain has gone directly to Spain.

But irrespective of such evidence, given the breeding success of Ruddy Duck, the population would be certain to expand across large parts of Europe in the absence of control measures in the UK. Where do you think that such unchecked expansion would reach a limit?

Whilst a cull was happening near me a Ruddy Duck was present in Spain ( per Birding World for well over a fortnight.) If Spain was so passionate about protecting White Headed Ducks why wasn't this bird shot on day 2 of its presence in Spain!!

Well, I can't comment on the speed of dispatch, but according to the BB eradication progress paper, the Spanish authorities have a well-organised control programme, which can deal with the few Ruddy Ducks that appear annually - in 2008, only six birds were seen and all of these were culled.

Ruddy Ducks have made it to the Azores and with the increase in the occurance of other American Ducks during the past 30 years in the UK I cannot see why this species might not occur naturally in the UK.

There's a huge difference between the accidental arrival of lone transatlantic vagrants, and the natural establishment of a viable breeding population in Europe through vagrancy. Even regularly-occurring vagrant N American ducks have failed to establish viable breeding populations in Europe (and vice versa). Please give some examples of natural colonisation via transatlantic vagrancy in modern times...

Richard

 

[lewis20126]

Please give some examples of natural colonisation via transatlantic vagrancy in modern times...

Richard

A few possibilities but others may have other views on these:

• Danaus plexippus
• Potamogeton epihydrus
• Spiranthes romanzoffiana

cheers, alan

 

[david kelly]

A few possibilities but others may have other views on these:

• Danaus plexippus
  
  It rarely strays to western Europe (rarely as far as Greece) from being transported by U. S. ships or by flying there if weather and wind conditions are right. It has also been found in Bermuda, Hawaii, the Solomons, New Caledonia, New Zealand, Australia, New Guinea, Ceylon, India, the Azores, and the Canary Islands.[
  
• Potamogeton epihydrus
  
  Nationally rare, one record in South Uist, Outer Hebrides. Introduced from seeds in cotton bales imported from USA to Lancashire in 19th Century. Abundant in two canals.
  
• Spiranthes romanzoffiana
  
  Okay, we'll give you that one.

cheers, alan

In other words, no vertrebrate has colonised Europe from North America without human aid.

David

 

[Richard Klim]

A few possibilities but others may have other views on these:

• Danaus plexippus
• Potamogeton epihydrus
• Spiranthes romanzoffiana

cheers, alan

OK, I should have said bird (or even Tetrapoda) species. :t:

Scraping the barrel, Ring-necked Duck is perhaps conceivable (pardon the pun), but hybridisation would surely preclude persistence.

But Ruddy Duck... To use the argument that it's a potential natural colonist as justification for allowing its proliferation is surely clutching at straws.

Richard

 

[lewis20126]

In other words, no vertrebrate has colonised Europe from North America without human aid.

David

David

I would look further than Wikipedia!

P epihydrus is well established on South Uist, e./g. BSBI atlas, JNCC red data book, Potamogeton handbook (C Preston)

TMK Monarch is (or was) well established on the Canaries & Azores

But still no vertebrates so I'll agree there!

What these non-vertebrate examples do demonstrate is that there are not necessarily ecological barriers to natural colonisation as might perhaps be assumed.

cheers, alan