Stability in wind (2 Viewers)

[tenex]

We use our 82mm scope (S2) on an old Gitzo aluminum tripod (226) which normally works very well, but performed poorly in wind yesterday -- 40mph is not unusual here. Hand pressure above the tripod mount helped a bit, but what if anything would really have solved the problem: carbon fiber? Ballast, touching the ground so as not to swing? ...

 

[BoldenEagle]

I have a Berlebach UNI wooden tripod which weighs about 8 kg but still can't alone offer enough stability in strong winds with my Kowa 883. I don't have experience on metal tripods but I have two carbon fibre tripods also. I don't think the material itself is the most important factor but the weight of the tripod is and provided that tripod legs are thick and strong enough (UNI legs are), there will be a great amount of vibration resistance when extra weight added hanging from the legs. It's important to add the weight hanging from the legs, not so beneficial if it's hanging from the center column. I use extra weight of 10 kg or more, which has a cord that separates to each leg and thus divides the weight smoothly. Each cord attaches in the middle section of each leg and slightly bends the leg curving inwards if looked from the side (depending how much extra weight added). The weight usually hangs just above the ground as there isn't that much swinging as it is attached to each three legs instead of just one vertical cord.

Besides that this method seems to dampen vibrations well, it also has the benefit that one can still use the center column (if the tripod has one).

Sometimes winds are nevertheless so strong that even with these methods I have to reduce magnification to say 30-40x to get a good view.

Regards, Juhani

 

[DMW]

We use our 82mm scope (S2) on an old Gitzo aluminum tripod (226) which normally works very well, but performed poorly in wind yesterday -- 40mph is not unusual here. Hand pressure above the tripod mount helped a bit, but what if anything would really have solved the problem: carbon fiber? Ballast, touching the ground so as not to swing? ...

Shelter... 😉

 

[WRL]

I have a Berlebach UNI wooden tripod which weighs about 8 kg but still can't alone offer enough stability in strong winds with my Kowa 883. [...]

Regards, Juhani

The other countermeasure would be to lower the leg angle, drive the leg spikes into the ground and use a seat for observing (because of lower position). And have a solid tripod head, of course. That is what I do in such situations (Berlebach UNI and Berlebach Pegasus head with Kowa 883 and a WalkStool).
Regards, Werner

 

[4John]

We use our 82mm scope (S2) on an old Gitzo aluminum tripod (226) which normally works very well, but performed poorly in wind yesterday -- 40mph is not unusual here. Hand pressure above the tripod mount helped a bit, but what if anything would really have solved the problem: carbon fiber? Ballast, touching the ground so as not to swing? ...

Expecting a tripod and scope to work extended in 40mph winds is an unreasonable ask IMO. Carbon fibre is sold on the basis that it's lighter and can be stiffer than aluminium which helps with damping vibration. You don't have a vibration problem, you have a (tripod!) weight problem. When I used a tripod I used to hang my rucsac on the centre column locking knob in windy conditions, but that's no use to you in 40mph wind. The only thing that will work in those conditions is to mount the telescope on a large concrete block - but you will then probably find the wind gusts start knocking your head about, and you won't want to carry the block around with you . WRL has suggested using a seat for observing. I would go further and suggest buying a sit-mat and sitting on it on the ground. I use this technique with a monopod when the wind gusts get too hard. Counter-intuitively perhaps I find a monopod easier to use fully extended in windy conditions that a tripod - probably because you need to grip the monopod all the time you are using it (as you found with hand pressure on your tripod). I also find it easy to keep the scope eyepiece in place on a monopod because the scope gets hit by the same gust at the same time as my head so they both move together.

 

[tenex]

Thanks, good suggestions. In particular I should have thought of getting down lower, which can be done on the spot without extra gear.

 

[Elkhornsun]

The problem is the amount of surface area presented to the wind and the force increases are geometric with 4 times the force at 20 mph as at 10 mph wind speeds. As suggested the best solution is to get as low to the ground as possible.

The other issue is that when the tripod head is above the ground there is a leveraged force from the wind. I was using 1 meter reflective discs on lightstands and later realized that with 25 mph wind gusts I would have needed about 50 lbs of sand bags to stabilize them.

More of a concern for me is wind blown dirt and sand and salt water which can damage the front elements of the binocular. With my camera lenses I use a UV filter for protection but there is no such option for binoculars.

 

[BoldenEagle]

Thanks, good suggestions. In particular I should have thought of getting down lower, which can be done on the spot without extra gear.

The extra gear can be just the cords and a light canvas bag, you can use rocks, sand or what ever you find on the spot to make the weight.

If you choose to sit you need to bring that seat or sit mat also so some extra gear needed anyway.

Regards, Juhani

 

[Ignatius]

Another issue will be that in very windy conditions, a suspended weight, especially like a rucksack, will swing in the wind, adding actual tripod movement to the already existing vibration.
I have no better suggestion to offer, and this is a problem I myself have been trying to solve unsuccessfully over the years by going to ever more expensive and larger dimensioned tripods, ending up with a Gitzo GT5533LS. I currently have an Acratech head and levelling base on it, but will soon upgrade to a Novoflex CB-5 II with the tilt attachment.
Lowering the tripod and using something like a walkstool, as suggested by WRL, is probably the best idea, although it does entail carrying another kg or so of weight.

 

[BoldenEagle]

I know some who use a metal spring between the weight and the tripod. For example a spring with capasity of 10kg is used with a weight of 12 kg so the weight lies partly on the ground preventing the swinging but still offers enough weight to dampen the vibrations.

Of course same can be done just by letting the bag of stones to touch the ground to a degree that swinging is prevented but most of the mass is pulling the tripod down.

Regards, Juhani

 

[WRL]

Shelter... 😉

When I imagine 40 mph (about 65 km/h in my metric world) of (probably gusty) wind I might agree with DMW: Go home and have a cup of coffee/tea/whatever will relax you ...
In addition, not only will the tripod/head/scope combination be subject to wind forces but you, the observer, will be as well when standing upright. Even if the scope is fixed to a concrete slab, you may not have a firm stand yourself and sway in such wind.
Regards, Werner

 

[DMW]

When I imagine 40 mph (about 65 km/h in my metric world) of (probably gusty) wind I might agree with DMW: Go home and have a cup of coffee/tea/whatever will relax you ...
In addition, not only will the tripod/head/scope combination be subject to wind forces but you, the observer, will be as well when standing upright. Even if the scope is fixed to a concrete slab, you may not have a firm stand yourself and sway in such wind.
Regards, Werner

Although I was being trite, I was also being serious. I do a lot of seawatching in moderate to strong winds, and ultimately the only solution is to seek shelter. I'm usually on a rocky headland, so it's a matter of finding a spot that is at least partially sheltered from the full force of the wind. In more open areas, sheltering behind a car might be an option.

Of course the various suggestions here are all good advice - get the heaviest tripod, get as low as possible, use ballast if possible, and put one hand on top of the scope and apply pressure while also pressing it into your face. But ultimately, with no shelter and 40mph winds you aren't going to have a productive time looking through a scope.

 

[Hermann]

1. Use a heavy tripod, preferably a wooden tripod.
2. Keep the tripod a low as possible and use a seat, for instance a walkstool. They're very useful indeed.
3. Use ballast.
4. Try to find a shelter.

Easy peasy.

Hermann

Edit: The photo shows my heavy tripod for windy conditions ...

 

[4John]

I totally agree with WRL ; if your scope is being battered your head will be too - so a 100% stable scope might be no use. That's why I find a monopod so useful in windy condtions - my head and my scope go sideways in sync with every gust. It's a lot better than a scope and tripod.

If you lie flat on the ground on your front, hammer a metal spike into the ground in front of your head and somehow attach the tripod head to the top of the spike you might be OK in 50mph gusts

This is the sit-mat I always carry in my rucsac :

Folding Sit Mat | Mountain Warehouse GB

It's currently on offer at £5.99, weighs almost nothing and folds up to not a lot. It has foam padding. It's a lot smaller and lighter than a folding chair and 0.5m lower. Put it on your Christmas list ?

 

[Elkhornsun]

It depends in part on whether the wind is steady or gusting at intervals. With my telephoto lenses I will wait for the wind to subside and then take my shots before it comes back again. When I see the most bird life is right before a storm front arrives and just after it has left.

 

[Binastro]

I used the 123mm f/5.15 Jaegers refractor on the Broadhurst Clarkson Mahogany garden tripod.
Light weight single tapered wooden legs with brass simple altazimuth head.

In gales of 50mph when the North Sea air brought the clearest skies with great transparency.
This showed good detail in the Veil nebula and was by far the best skies for faint objects.

80x and 35x.

But I positioned the tripod between our shed and a wall.

I suppose viewing from a hide brings similar benefits.

Another possibility is the Ergo mount, but this is heavy, mounted on the ground.

My ex gov aluminium two piece legs tripod could take a 75kg weight and was also good with a 150mm Maksutov at 95x.
But the chains were around the bottom of the tripod.
The tripod is very heavy and not suitable for carrying, except from the car.
It had a custom one arm mount.
Also good in windy conditions.

In all cases, I think, tight string or chains around the bottom of the tripod legs gives better stability than mid level attachments.

Regards,
B.

 

[seawatcher]

I totally agree with WRL ; if your scope is being battered your head will be too - so a 100% stable scope might be no use. That's why I find a monopod so useful in windy condtions - my head and my scope go sideways in sync with every gust. It's a lot better than a scope and tripod.

If you lie flat on the ground on your front, hammer a metal spike into the ground in front of your head and somehow attach the tripod head to the top of the spike you might be OK in 50mph gusts

This is the sit-mat I always carry in my rucsac :

Folding Sit Mat | Mountain Warehouse GB

It's currently on offer at £5.99, weighs almost nothing and folds up to not a lot. It has foam padding. It's a lot smaller and lighter than a folding chair and 0.5m lower. Put it on your Christmas list ?

Agree that even a heavy and sturdy tripod does not help much when the wind gets up, especially during gusts. If it is windy then I try to sit down. But, these lightweight pocketable foam sit-mats tend to blow away. I have lost so many that I feel partly responsible for the plastic waste on my local shoreline.

A folding stool helps, but it is more to carry. I know some people with rucsacs with a built in chair. But yet to find one comfortable for my back. I have also lain flat on my stomach on many occasions, resting my scope on a rucsac or a rolled-up jacket, just to get out of the wind a bit. Best solution is shelter, but try finding that on a good bird-rich estuary.

After 50 years of standing in a howler with my scope shaking all over the place, my own conclusion is that I won't find a tripod to sturdy my scope when it gets really rough, so I just have to accept the headaches when trying to use my gear in inclement weather, and my comapnions have to accept my foul language as I try to clinch identification along the local beaches. And being primarily a coastal birder I have had my fair share of frustrating moments where I either blame the wind or my tripod!
SW

 

[Rotherbirder]

I find that a bucket of water helps to 'dampen' vibrations 😉😂! Just saying ... the pedant in me came to the fore, sorry.

RB

 

[4John]

Agree that even a heavy and sturdy tripod does not help much when the wind gets up, especially during gusts. If it is windy then I try to sit down. But, these lightweight pocketable foam sit-mats tend to blow away. I have lost so many that I feel partly responsible for the plastic waste on my local shoreline.

A folding stool helps, but it is more to carry. I know some people with rucsacs with a built in chair. But yet to find one comfortable for my back. I have also lain flat on my stomach on many occasions, resting my scope on a rucsac or a rolled-up jacket, just to get out of the wind a bit. Best solution is shelter, but try finding that on a good bird-rich estuary.

After 50 years of standing in a howler with my scope shaking all over the place, my own conclusion is that I won't find a tripod to sturdy my scope when it gets really rough, so I just have to accept the headaches when trying to use my gear in inclement weather, and my comapnions have to accept my foul language as I try to clinch identification along the local beaches. And being primarily a coastal birder I have had my fair share of frustrating moments where I either blame the wind or my tripod!
SW

I admire your dedication. I would take WRL's way out and go for "kaffee und kuchen" .

More than 50 years ago when I was in infants school some mothers used to sew their children's gloves to a long piece of elastic which they threaded through the sleeves of their children's coats so they didn't lose their gloves. Something similar might work for your sit mat .

 

[seawatcher]

I admire your dedication. I would take WRL's way out and go for "kaffee und kuchen" .

More than 50 years ago when I was in infants school some mothers used to sew their children's gloves to a long piece of elastic which they threaded through the sleeves of their children's coats so they didn't lose their gloves. Something similar might work for your sit mat .

I will get the sewing machine out I used to strap a sit-mat to one of my tripod legs, but they blew away when I undid the strap. Someone should make one you can attach to your jacket.

Maybe I need a tripod with a built in seat, so my weight will help to stabilise the whole rig?

Another tip to stabilise a tripod is to spread the legs as wide as possible, and try not to raise the centre column.

SW