Storm Desmond-let's rewild the bare fells (1 Viewer)

[trw]

I am no expert on water running off the fells but I had a conversation with a representative of English Nature just before the biblical floods brought to us courtesy of Desmond.
Giving them credit where it was due,I praised them for fencing off large areas of sheep-grazed fells in the Howgills,Borrowdale and Bannisdale-then planting thousands of trees.
Then,I expressed my frustration that groups like the Open Spaces Society and farming pressure groups had objected to additional rewilding in other areas.
I saw the benefits of scrub and plants growing which would help wildlife.The English Nature officer pointed out the additional benefit:the reduction in fast water run-off leading to flooding.
North West Water wanted to fence off an area above Thirlmere.At the moment it is steep grazing land.They hoped that once fenced off wild plants and shrubs would grow again.
Of course busy- bodies belonging to various pressure groups objected.The daftest protest was against'unsightly' wooden' posts and fences which would spoil the views!Other groups insisted that if it is open access land then human beings take precedent to wild animals-they should be allowed to wander wherever they like even if this reduces the chances of seeing anything up there,apart from sheep and sheep droppings.
As it happened the main artery road through the central Lakes has been seriously damaged by guess what?-serious landslides!The water has rushed down the fells and washed the road way in at least two places.There is nothing to stop the flow except short grass which has been grazed and trampled by hundreds of sheep.
It will cost a fortune fixing the damage-not to mention the economic costs caused by the disruption and extra fuel costs as drivers are forced to make huge detours.
Coincedentally,the very area which North West Water wanted to rewild is adjacent to this scene of destruction.
If we are going to be faced with heavier rainfall rewilding the fells just might help reduce some of the damage we have seen this weekend.
Just to illustrate the problem look at the photo of the Dunmail Rise damage below.
http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/resources/images/4527106.jpg?type=article-full

 

[Sangahyando]

From the perspective of preventing erosion and flooding, this sounds like a sensible idea. Is there any information on potential negative ecological effects, assuming there are any?

 

[Xenospiza]

I would think that creating intrinsically depauperate forests on the bare uplands of England is an environmental catastrophe in the making...

 

[Nutcracker]

Worth reading George Monbiot in The Guardian on the topic. Very accurate, very hard-hitting.

 

[lewis20126]

I would think that creating intrinsically depauperate forests on the bare uplands of England is an environmental catastrophe in the making...

how so if using natives and say fenced off areas / natural colonisation by birch, oak etc? Nothing there at the moment except sheep.

cheers, a

 

[trw]

how so if using natives and say fenced off areas / natural colonisation by birch, oak etc? Nothing there at the moment except sheep.

cheers, a

The trees Natural England have planted are exactly that-native deciduous trees.
We are not talking about densely packed conifer plantations.
Firstly large sections are fenced off from sheep so eventually the grass will grow and not be grazed or trampled, whilst natural scrub and plants will be able to establish themselves.
Then the trees are planted,spaced apart from each other within squares of fences.
If you are travelling on the M6 look east just south of Tebay as you drive past the Howgills.This scheme was agreed despite the initial objections from the local sheep farmers.
Hundreds of acres have been similary covered with deciduous trees in nearby Borrowdale and Bannisdale.
The latter was suffering from flood damage at the top end of the valley and the reason the trees were planted was to avoid future water damage.
I have pasted a copy of the damage to the Dunmail Rise road-just look at the steep, bare fell to the right!
http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/resources/images/4527106.jpg?type=article-full

 

[Allen S. Moore]

I have pasted a copy of the damage to the Dunmail Rise road-just look at the steep, bare fell to the right!
http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/resources/images/4527106.jpg?type=article-full

Isn't that the main road between Windermere and Keswick? I remember as a student in the 1970s walking on that mountainside to the east and a big boulder came down, just missing us - scarey!

 

[trw]

Isn't that the main road between Windermere and Keswick? I remember as a student in the 1970s walking on that mountainside to the east and a big boulder came down, just missing us - scarey!

It certainly is.
This road will be out of action for a while as there is another landslide further on.
Anyone going from Windermere to Keswick will have a long detour via the M6 or A6

 

[poledark]

Without being to picky, there is no evidence of a landslide in that pic, looks like the road has been washed away by floodwater undermining it. I always thought that the idea of planting more trees was that the trees suck up some of the rainfall. OK in normal times, but probably ineffective when something like storm Desmond hits.

Den

 

[trw]

Without being to picky, there is no evidence of a landslide in that pic, looks like the road has been washed away by floodwater undermining it. I always thought that the idea of planting more trees was that the trees suck up some of the rainfall. OK in normal times, but probably ineffective when something like storm Desmond hits.

Den

If you look at the size of the torrent,the water has drained down from the hills,into the stream and it has swelled into a raging torrent of water- thus washing the road away.
The road suffered landslides and was damaged by swollen streams.
As I say I am no expert but at the moment many of the surrounding fells are grazed so the only ground cover is short trampled grass[see right of photo].
I think the idea of re widing is not only for plants and trees to soak up water, but also to create slopes which slow the descent of the water.
A typical example is a local valley where I visit.
On one side there is dense bracken stretching for at least 500 yards from the path at the bottom of the valley, in places.When it rains heavily the footpath at the bottom never floods.The water has to slowly work its way through the vegetation before reaching the bottom of the valley-it doesn't just rush down at great speed.
On the other side the farmer has planted deciduous trees,maintained an ancient woodland and created a rewilded area which is simply fenced off.In the last section there are plants,shrubs and bracken which have restablished themselves.
The valley doesn't flood there.
The only area it did flood was at the head of the valley.The heavy rain used to gush down off the only area which was just sheep grazed land.
It washed away a long stone wall.
The farmer got a grant to plant hundreds of trees along the lower slopes just above the devastated area.He told me this was being done to prevent this happening in the future.
Incidentally this is one of the best bird watching locations in Cumbria!
Species recorded include Whinchat,Stonechat,Reed Bunting,Meadow Pipit,Treecreeper,Tree Pipit,Yellowhamer,Pied and Spotted Flycatcher,Barn Owl,Curlew,Common Snipe,Cuckoo,Dipper,Common Redstart and so on.

 

[locustella]

Why is it so noisy about this Desmond ? Is it very strong ?
Does it have something to do with Mr Desmond Tutu ?

 

[Nutcracker]

I always thought that the idea of planting more trees was that the trees suck up some of the rainfall. OK in normal times, but probably ineffective when something like storm Desmond hits.

Den

Ungrazed woodland soils are far more porous and aerated than stock-trampled soils, so have a vastly greater water storage capacity.

 

[Nutcracker]

Why is it so noisy about this Desmond ? Is it very strong ?
Does it have something to do with Mr Desmond Tutu ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_Desmond

Nothing to do with Tutu!

 

[trw]

Should have called it Storm Fury in homage to Tyson Fury-or Storm Trump perhaps.Well, he is causing a storm at the moment.