The Zen Ray ZEN ED 3 (1 Viewer)

[FrankD]

I had the opportunity to stop at the local Cabelas today and, as promised, I took the 8x43 ED3s with me. I took them there to compare directly to the Swarovision 8.5x42. The results were not surprising. The SV was significantly better at edge performance. There was no comparison in this area. As for the other optical categories that we all tend to look for (apparent brightness, sharpness, contrast, CA control, etc...) I could not note any significant difference within the confines of the store. I mention that last bit specifically because this comparison was strictly done inside the store and over a 20 minute period. The binoculars were entirely comparable in the center 2/3rds of the image. I could note no difference in color represenation or CA control nor any of the other areas.

From a build quality perspective the Swaro SV feels a bit more solid and is notably smaller "in the hand"...even with the upgraded armor of the ED3. Focusing was a toss-up. There is a little play in the ED3 unit I have and the SV showed different levels of focusing tension depending on which way you were turning the knob.

All for now...have to put the kids to bed.

 

[jackfrost_773]

I'd be very grateful if you could tell me if the ocular twist-up range is the same on your ED3 10x as on the ED2 7x.

On the ED3 10x I've just received, in addition to the eyecups now being flush - the modification for spectacle wearers you describe - the distance that the oculars can be twisted up is about 4mm less than on my ED2 7x. This causes extreme vignetting if I try to use them resting against my eyebrows, which is how I prefer to use binoculars.

When I asked if this pair was faulty, Charles referred to the eyecup changes designed to improve eye relief for spectacle wearers. But he has not yet replied to my question about the twist-up range having been reduced, so I am still wondering if my pair might be faulty.

Thanks

 

[mooreorless]

Jack are you resting the binocular against eyebrow and top of cheekbone, both top and bottom? I don't think I have found one binocular I could do that with, I always have to tilt the bottom out some.

 

[jackfrost_773]

Hi Steve
Thanks for your response.
Resting on eyebrow but not cheekbone - just to steady the view. Works fine for me with the ED2 7x which twist-up 4-5mm further than the ED3 10x I've received. Also works for my old Nikon and Minox 10x that I hoped the ED3 were replacing!
If the reduced twist-up range is a new design feature, I can't see the reason for it. But if we are stuck with it, then I hope Charles can source some replacement rubber eyecups that will provide an additional 4-6mm offset to compensate for the reduced twist-up range.
Regards, Jack

 

[ceasar]

Jack,

I also hold my binoculars like you do.

It sounds like the eye-cups on your new ED-3 have eye relief that is too short for you when they are extended. They should extend further for you than they do. I have had this problem with a small 8 x 28 Vortex binocular. I had to hold it away from my eyes to avoid vignetting. Fortunately it was inexpensive and I was able to give it to my son who wears glasses. It worked fine for him. I doubt if you will be able to correct the problem. Sometimes binoculars do not fit all people. If it were me, I would send it back.

Bob

 

[chartwell99]

Jack,

I also hold my binoculars like you do.

It sounds like the eye-cups on your new ED-3 have eye relief that is too short for you when they are extended. They should extend further for you than they do. I have had this problem with a small 8 x 28 Vortex binocular. I had to hold it away from my eyes to avoid vignetting. ... I doubt if you will be able to correct the problem. Sometimes binoculars do not fit all people. If it were me, I would send it back.

Bob

I think Bob is entirely correct on this one. I had the same problem with a Swarovski 7 x 50 SLC which Land Sea and Sky in Houston addressed by fitting some spare Nikon rubber porro eyecups over the fully extended Swaro eyecups to extend eyerelief. The fix did work for this binocular but may not work for the Zens. I have had no vignetting problems with either my 8 x 43 ED or 7 x 36 ED2 and had hoped to buy a 7 x 43 ED3 when it comes out, hopefully in the fall. Bummer, if it turns out that the new model has shortened eyerelief.

 

[jackfrost_773]

Hi Bob and Chartwell99

Thanks to you both for your comments.
Yes, I have no problems with the ED2 7x36 but the oculars on those have about 4mm extra travel compared to my ED3 10x.
Returning the ED3s to USA isn't really an option I want to consider - too much hassle with shipping costs, insurance, UK import duties etc. Besides, the optics on the ED3s are excellent and I've not seen comparable quality for that anything near that price in Europe.
Charles has said he'll contact the factory to see if they can come up with replacement eyecups, so I'll keep my fingers crossed for that. Meanwhile, Bob, I'll try your suggestion about adding other makers' eyecups before resorting to rubber bushes and superglue ....
For prospective purchasers in North America, however, I would strongly suggest trying the ED3s before ordering to avoid similar disappointment.

 

[FrankD]

I just wanted to clarify something as I read through this post. I understood what Jack was referring to in his original post when I read through it. There is too much (too long) eye relief even with the eyecups fully extended. He starts to get blackouts because of this.

Is this correct?

The reason I am asking is because I saw where Bob said that the eye relief was "too short when the eyecups were fully extended". If it was too short then tunnel vision would occur and the simple fix would be to twist them in slightly until the full field of view is obtained. I am guessing this is not the case based on other comments in this thread but just wanted to clarify...?

 

[jackfrost_773]

Hi FrankD

Your original interpretation is correct. With the eyecups fully extended I get vignetting affecting 30-50% of the view (depending upon tilt) unless I hold the binoculars about 5mm in front of my eyes instead of resting on my eyebrows. Retracting the eyecups exacerbates the problem (as might be expected) and also produces a bright ring near the edge of the field of view.
Kind regards, Jack

 

[ceasar]

Yes Frank,
The eyecups do not extend far enough for the eye relief needed if you brace them on your eyebrows like Jack and I and Steve do. For instance, My Nikon 10 x 32 EDG's eyecups have 4 settings as follows: Closed in setting (for eye glass wearers); 1st position out; 2nd Position out; Fully extended.

The fully extended position works for me. If I use the 1st position out I get vignetting and in the 2nd position the FOV is a little narrower and does not give a comfortable view for me.

Bob

 

[jackfrost_773]

Bob, you seem to have similar vision to me and so I'm guessing that you, too, would have problems with the ED3 10x.

Charles suggested that a compromise was necessary to accommodate improvements demanded by spectacle users and that most other users (unlike him and us) "prefer to hold the binoculars away from their eye sockets". I don't have his experience and expertise, but I don't personally know anyone who uses their binoculars in that manner - my contacts all brace the instrument either against their spectacles or against their eyebrows. Besides, the eyecups on my older Minox and Nikon, like yours, do extend sufficiently to avoid the need for any such compromise and I really don't understand why the ED3 can't do the same.

But I do have a work-around. I have some (so-called) "optically clear" toughened plastic safety glasses, which work a treat with the ED3 eyecups fully retracted. This will have to serve until something is done about the eyecups or ocular assemblies.

kind regards
Jack

 

[ZEN-RAY]

Jack,

We have tried many of 10x43 ED3 in our warehouse, with eyecups extended, resting on eyebrows. So far, we haven't been able to see the blackout as you described. We do have to recognize that we are all different in how we hold the binoculars, not matter how subtle the difference is. I am still waiting for my engineers to get back to me on whether we can help you field 'downgrade" your eyecups to the ED2 style. I will keep you posted via email.

Thanks

Charles

 

[jackfrost_773]

Hi Charles,

Many thanks for your efforts to address this issue. I appreciate that it must be frustrating for you if you cannot replicate my vignetting problem using your warehouse stock. But given that quite a few other people have tried my ED3 10x and experienced the same problem, which we don't have with our other makers' 10x, I think this is something Zen-Ray does need to look into. Of course, it is always possible that the 10x I received are faulty - should the eyecups twist out by 5mm, 10mm, or what?
Thanks

 

[Raybo]

I hate all of you!
I just went to the Zen Ray site to check out the ED3's and noticed the 20% discount code.......well........Ummm.........

I couldn't resist, I HAD to order a pair of 8X, hopefully they will make my Pentax DCF SP's go bye bye, and they are nice binoculars.

Cheers,
Ray

 

[MichelleOhio]

Enjoy!

 

[Nixterdemus]

" ... most other users (unlike him and us) "prefer to hold the binoculars away from their eye sockets"."

I rest mine on my on my eyebrow ridge and cheekbone simultaneously. I was having problems when I first received my 7X36 ED2, but then I realized that I didn't have the width adjusted properly. Now, I'm cruising right along, but wonder if the Prime models are going to have the ER of the ED3 as well. Seems it would be easy enough to tool a slip on eyepiece to make up the difference, but it would be a mite larger in diameter and the covers would try to pull them off. I can appreciate needing room if you wear specs, yet I'd also think another notch/setting would've been the answer.

Well, it seems it's 15.2 ED3 10X43/ED2 9x36 vs 20 for the 8X42/10X42 Prime w/16.8 for the ED2 7X36/ED3 8X43.

Dang, hope I got that right.

Interestingly enough I notice the Meopta Meostar 7x42 also has 20 mm or eye relief.

 

[eitanaltman]

allright, I finally did it: just ordered a pair of 8x43 ED3's!

I had been waffling for a while after returning the 7x36 ED2's but finally caved. After some emailing with Diane Porter (birdwatching.com) confirmed that ZR fixed some of the problems that had bothered me about the ED2's (better armor, better ergonomics and focus knob, better stray light control) have been addressed in the ED3, I went for it. I appreciate the new looks too, I always thought the ED/ED2 looked a bit cheesy with the slick green plasticky armor with the bumpies on the sides and the black trim accents.

Now the waiting!

 

[eitanaltman]

boom! ED3's arrived today!

I want to give big kudos to Charles for addressing all of the major concerns with the ED2 model as the ED3 is a very subtle but significant step forward. I don't have the ED2 to compare side-by-side anymore, but Frank and Steve pretty much covered the (slight) differences there in terms of optics. Like the ED2, the ED3 has a wide, rich "wow" view that is lustrously bright and sharp. I doubt anyone could tell any difference in terms of transmission/brightness/sharpness without a careful side-by-side comparison. My sense is that the edge performance of the 8x43 ED3 is better than the 7x36 ED2 as well, wider "sweet spot" and the distortion on the outer ring isn't nearly as distracting.

Most importantly, all my concerns with the ED2 were addressed:

- veiling glare/flare is MUCH improved. Perhaps my ED2 sample was a clunker in that respect but I got nearly constant veiling glare with the 7x36 ED2, whereas I get almost none with the ED3. Only when looking almost directly at the bright afternoon sun could I induce any veiling glare. They still aren't the most pristine matte black barrels I've ever seen, there are some little spots and tiny reflections, but it's very minor and much better than my wife's Monarch 10x42.

- the focus knob is much better, less slop, I love the texture (more like the Vortex Viper knob) and the quick focus is wonderful. It doesn't feel too fast for me AT ALL, it feels just right.

- the eyecups are more comfortable, although the build/feel and click-stops don't feel any different

- the objective covers look the same but seem much more secure

- the overall look & feel is classier, not as "tacky" as the ED/ED2 scheme

- the rubber armor is MUCH MUCH better. Besides the improved aesthetics, the tactile feel is much softer and more comfortable, not as slick and "plasticky", and the little ridges on the sides are much better than the bumpies.

Great work Charles!

 

[Raybo]

"the focus knob is much better, less slop, I love the texture (more like the Vortex Viper knob) and the quick focus is wonderful. It doesn't feel too fast for me AT ALL, it feels just right."

I love the view in my pair (A LOT!), but the "slop' and super fast focusing does not make them a total pleasure to use.

Cheers,
Ray

 

[eitanaltman]

from what I can tell reading online reviews, the focus "slop" is variable (e.g. a quality control issue?). My ED3's have essentially no slop in the focus wheel.... not quite the same feeling of perfectly machined precision as the Vortex Vipers I tried, but there is no "wiggly" looseness like the ED2's I tried.