This one or that one (1 Viewer)

[GrampaTom]

Sliding over from the Bino subgroup. I know next to nothing about scopes. Been informally birding for a very long time and happy with my grab and go system of binos and Fanny pack. Have gotten a bit more focused last couple migrations. Reluctantly admitting the desire to see stuff further out than my 10s allow over San Francisco Bay or a couple new venues is causing me to rethink my aversion to these.

Don’t imagine I’ll get caught up in scopes and need/want to play with various ones. Doubtful I’ll be looking at night sky. Seems once you get past the idea of carrying a scope and tripod, the differences in size and weight between some models is sort of beside the point. The modularity feature and yes price of Swarovski, though I love their binos seems overkill. What do I know?

I get the Kowa 883 and 773 have been a top choice and been around a long time. Searching archives here didn’t turn up much in terms of recent comparison of these two. Have not been able to Google Translate Binomanias recent review of the 773. Recently saw both, briefly. Thought both gorgeous.

Curious about more recent thoughts concerning these. If you were to “buy once” either/which better choice or something else you’d recommend?

Thanks
G’Tom

 

[Hermann]

Sliding over from the Bino subgroup. I know next to nothing about scopes. Been informally birding for a very long time and happy with my grab and go system of binos and Fanny pack. Have gotten a bit more focused last couple migrations. Reluctantly admitting the desire to see stuff further out than my 10s allow over San Francisco Bay or a couple new venues is causing me to rethink my aversion to these.

Good for you. Scopes give you access to a whole new dimension of birding.

Don’t imagine I’ll get caught up in scopes and need/want to play with various ones. Doubtful I’ll be looking at night sky. Seems once you get past the idea of carrying a scope and tripod, the differences in size and weight between some models is sort of beside the point. The modularity feature and yes price of Swarovski, though I love their binos seems overkill. What do I know?

I agree on the modularity feature. It seems like overkill for what you want. These scopes are also exceedingly heavy, I find.

However, I wouldn't dismiss the importance of size and weight that quickly. A heavier (and bigger) scope requires a more stable tripod+head, so the weight adds up. Of course everything depends on how you intend to use the scope. If you want to mainly use it at some spot, go for one of the big boys. Size matters when it comes to scopes. If you intend to carry it on walks, especially in difficult terrain, you might want to get something lighter.

I get the Kowa 883 and 773 have been a top choice and been around a long time. Searching archives here didn’t turn up much in terms of recent comparison of these two. Have not been able to Google Translate Binomanias recent review of the 773. Recently saw both, briefly. Thought both gorgeous.

Both are exellent. I'd probably go for the 883 myself. Both are "biggish" scopes, and why not get the one with the bigger objective lens? Be careful when getting an 883, there are some lemons about. Not many, but a few. I'd definitely do a star test if I were to get one.

Other possibilities I'd consider are the Nikon Monarchs, either the 82ED or the 60ED. There's a very positive review of the Monarch 82ED in the Nikon forum: Monarch 82ED, a Perfect Ten. The 60mm Monarch is excellent as well. I'd also consider the Swarovski ATS 65HD if you want to go for a smaller scope. It's an excellent scope for a variety of reasons. If I were to replace my old Nikon fieldscope EDIIIA, I'd choose between the Nikon Monarch 60ED and the Swarovski. From what I've seen (and heard) the Nikon Monarchs and the small Swarovski are usually at least very good; there are apparently not as many lemons about as with some other makes or models.

BTW, don't forget you'll need a good tripod+head as well. Many people who buy their first scope make the mistake of getting a cheapo tripod. That can be an expensive mistake when the tripod topples over. Or when they find they need to buy something better ...

Hermann

 

[GrampaTom]

Good for you. Scopes give you access to a whole new dimension of birding.

I agree on the modularity feature. It seems like overkill for what you want. These scopes are also exceedingly heavy, I find.

However, I wouldn't dismiss the importance of size and weight that quickly. A heavier (and bigger) scope requires a more stable tripod+head, so the weight adds up. Of course everything depends on how you intend to use the scope. If you want to mainly use it at some spot, go for one of the big boys. Size matters when it comes to scopes. If you intend to carry it on walks, especially in difficult terrain, you might want to get something lighter.


Both are exellent. I'd probably go for the 883 myself. Both are "biggish" scopes, and why not get the one with the bigger objective lens? Be carewful when getting an 883, there are some lemons about. Not many, but a few. I'd definitely do a star test if I were to get one.

Other possibilities I'd consider are the Nikon Monarchs, either the 82ED or the 60ED. There's a very positive review of the Monarch 82ED in the Nikon forum: Monarch 82ED, a Perfect Ten. The 60mm Monarch is excellent as well. I'd also consider the Swarovski ATS 65HD if you want to go for a smaller scope. It's an excellent scope for a variety of reasons. If I were to replace my old Nikon fieldscope EDIIIA, I'd choose between the Nikon Monarch 60ED and the Swarovski. From what I've seen (and heard) the Nikon Monarchs and the small Swarovski are usually at least very good; there are apparently not as many lemons about as with some other makes or models.

BTW, don't forget you'll need a good tripod+head as well. Many people who buy their first scope make the mistake of getting a cheapo tripod. That can be an expensive mistake when the tripod topples over. Or when they find they need to buy something better ...

Hermann

Thanks Herman. Any recommendations on tripods/heads?

 

[rodneyAB]

If I were looking for a tripod now, I'd look at the Berlbach offerings. I use a Gitzo GT5531s. which is I think a heavy duty set of legs. the 's' denotes it is 'short' and barely tall enough for my 5'11. I could add a center column. Instead of buying any of the recommended fluid heads I see mentioned on BF, I put a relatively inexpensive Sirui VA-5 fluid head, and removed the handle. The VA-5 is flexible enough for my uses and handles the weight of the ATX85 well.

 

[Hermann]

If I were looking for a tripod now, I'd look at the Berlbach offerings.

The Berlebachs are excellent - provided you don't hike a lot with the tripod. At least that's what I think. If you do, I'd prefer a set of carbon fibre legs. I like Gitzo, a lot. Some other makes are also excellent, for instance Really Right Stuff (even more expensive than Gitzo). Of the less expensive makes I think Sirui or Leofoto should be OK. But there are many others, maybe someone else can chime in.

I use a Gitzo GT5531s. which is I think a heavy duty set of legs. the 's' denotes it is 'short' and barely tall enough for my 5'11. I could add a center column.

This brings up an important point: The tripod you buy depends on how tall you are. You don't want a tripod that's too short or where you have to extend the center column fully.

Instead of buying any of the recommended fluid heads I see mentioned on BF, I put a relatively inexpensive Sirui VA-5 fluid head, and removed the handle. The VA-5 is flexible enough for my uses and handles the weight of the ATX85 well.

The Sirui is fine IMO. Berlebach also makes very good video heads. I personally use a Manfrotto 500AH for my 82mm scope, and a small Gitzo (2180, not made anymore) for my smaller scopes. If I were to buy a new video head, I'd probably look at the Berlebachs quite closely.

BTW, I find I actually use more than one tripod on a regular basis. And more than one scope ... A heavy wooden tripod on stormy days (82mm Nikon Fieldscope) and old, pretty heavy aluminium Gitzo (82mm Nikon and 60mm Nikon Fieldscope). I got that tripod over 30 years ago, and it has seen some very heavy use. A fairly light Gitzo carbon (60mm Nikon and 50mm Nikon Fieldscope, my main tripod), and finally a lightweight Gitzo carbon (50mm Nikon, sometimes also the 60mm Nikon). I also use a monopod (Monostat, unfortunately not made anymore) on days when I need to keep the weight down as much as possible, usually with the Nikon ED50 Fieldscope, but sometimes also with the EDIIIA (60mm).

Once you start using a scope on a regular basis they become quite addictive ...

Hermann

 

[rodneyAB]

Thanx G'Tom for generating this thread and Thanx Hermann for your perspectives here, I enjoyed your 'praises of small scopes' thread as well

 

[GrampaTom]

Thanks all for the help. Made a little spreadsheet to organize recommendations and working to get my hands on these. Definitely things I would not have known to consider.

G'Tom

 

[GrampaTom]

OK, time for an update. Though my choice suggests this thread no longer belongs here... Help!

First thanks to all who provided comments here and via direct emails. They helped a lot as I sorted through the choices. Essentially after my paper chase, I winnowed the choices to a compromise for portability, pure birding, (not planets), light gathering, optical quality. I found a shop 3 hours north that had the Kowa 773, Nikon Monarch 82, and Opticron 77 and 60s. Lovely people, they put all four with tripods out on the sidewalk, pointed them up to an old weathering wooden water tower with lots of detail to discern and a bit of Pacific Ocean fog to mess only a bit. I am a rank amateur, on a steep learning curve. I am do for Cataract lens replacement in a couple months. I did have my fav EL 1042s around my neck to compare.

If there was a material difference between the 4 scopes optically, I couldn't detect it. While the X range is slightly different, setting each eyepiece to the smallest, I got a full view. With each at max X, none provided full FOV. But Oh my goodness, what lovely views. Comparing to my binos and 3 others the shop had I wanted to look though, Im a bit in awe of what I could see, how sharp, clear and useful was the image at least to mid X.

Looking at each as a product, so style, fit/finish, smoothness of controls, placement of same, again they were all fine. How to choose? I had to fight with my ego to put aside the impulse to buy on reputation. It was not hard to put aside the thinking, (I can be guilty of) that if something costs more it must b better.

I bought The MM4 77.

G'Tom

 

[tenex]

The Meopta S2 82 is also worth considering. It's our first scope too, used on an old Gitzo for most of two years now and we love it. Either eyepiece (20-70 or 30-60W) is excellent and offers 18mm eye relief; sharp all the way when seeing allows, and I've never heard anyone say they can't see the full FOV. (Don't write off the high-mag end, that's what scopes are for.) They do go on sale periodically but aren't stocked in many stores so you'd have to order one to try. Highly recommended.

 

[forent]

(...) How to choose? I had to fight with my ego to put aside the impulse to buy on reputation. It was not hard to put aside the thinking, (I can be guilty of) that if something costs more it must b better.
I bought The MM4 77.
G'Tom

Congrats! A reasonable decision. Good is good enough, it does not always have to be the very best. (Hence, I changed my Swarovski ATX 65/95 system for a Meopta S2 HD 20-70x82.)
If you should still be in search of a tripod I can recommend the Leofoto Ranger LS-364C.